HSBC WORLD MATCH PLAY CHAMPIONSHIP

October 15, 2003

Seve Ballesteros

Gary Player

SCOTT CROCKETT: In the 40th year of this event, it's an honor to have you here. Between the two of you, you have almost won a quarter of the titles, Gary from '65 to '73 and Seve, '81 and '91.

Gary just reflect on your victories and your memories of the World Match-play Championship here at Wentworth.

GARY PLAYER: First of all, it's always been a great thrill for me to participate in this tournament because I think we are inundated with medal events around the world and to have had this idea and I think it is Mark McCormack's idea to have man-to-man playing as a world match-play event on a great golf course with great facilities and a great time of the year was a great thrill for me. It didn't matter where I was, if I was in Australia, South Africa or America or wherever I was. I eagerly awaited my invitation to play in this event and never ever did not come as far as I could remember, unless I was ill. Some of the great matches was by Lima and I remember the day we were walking down the 17th green down to the 18th tee and he put his arm around me and he was six up on me and he said "never mind" and I was U.S. Open champion then and just won the Grand Slam and he said, "you'll be invited back next year." I thought to myself, well, thank you, but in the meantime I'm thinking well I've still got a bit of news for you. (Laughter.)

I can remember he came in the clubhouse and all of the press were around him, "you've beaten Gary Player." I didn't have lunch; I went to breakfast. I had no lunch, went into practice, got to the first hole and lost the first hole. That's golf. Then I went down, I think it was in '64 and beat him on the 37th hole and that was one of my great matches.

The other time I was playing Nicklaus and they had a press column of who they fancied to win, Nicklaus or myself and Nicklaus was unanimous. I didn't hear one little guy say Gary, and I beat him 6 and 4 and I beat him 5 and 4 the next time as well. So we have had great drama here, but Gabe Brewer was something special because we tied the 37th, we tied the 38th and we went to the 39th and they weren't anticipating anybody getting that far. So he changed the cup and they put the pin over here and the player was on the back plateau, that high green and I hit the club, I ran it up eight-foot from the hole. He was in the rough, too short and said, "look, we moved the flags," and we walked up there and moved the flag about eight feet. He says, "well, we replay the hole tomorrow" and I say, "please rest." I said, "don't let this happen." He said, no, what we are going to do is we are going to cut -- anybody got a knife here and a knife came out of the gallery and stuck in the green like that. And he cut the cup out, put the flag in and he said, "play on."

Thank goodness I had it. So we've had great matches and great times and great memories. So it's a thrill to come back here just to see these young guys and to participate and be in this great country.

SCOTT CROCKETT: You've had equally as many good memories of your time in the championship. Maybe before we take some questions can you reflect on your memories here.

SEVE BALLESTEROS: Well, maybe my memory is a little bit different than Gary's. There was no knives or anything flying around. (Laughter.) But, yeah, I have great memories, especially one of them against Sandy Lyle, 37 holes when it was raining like hell and I managed to hit a driver and a 3-wood. And I holed the putt from about 35 feet. It's interesting; today I hit -- 25 years later -- I hit a driver and a pitching wedge. It was the same time of the year.

I remember when I beat Ben Crenshaw and I have a good story about Bernhard Langer when I beat Bernhard Langer the second time, when I won my match on the 14. He walked into the 15 tee and I won -- I was trying to check his hand and he just walked away, he didn't know that the match was over, he wanted to continue. I said, "Bernhard, I'm sorry, but I don't think we have to play anymore." And he said, "really, yeah, I think it's over." And he started thinking, oh, I'm sorry, thank you very much for the match.

As Gary said, this is a fantastic tournament and obviously, match-play it's always been very special for everybody. I think in match-play, you play -- you only play the golf course but you also play the -- and it's more dramatic, more aggressive and I think it's more interesting, especially when you play the whole year round, medal play, most of the time and so it's great to be able to change and play match-play.

Q. Does a £1 million prize fund seem obscene to you?

GARY PLAYER: No, I don't think there's anything wrong in having a million prize for first prize because change is the price of survival. As long as the young players, the young players of the world fulfill their obligations to the athletic stint. In other words, when you give an invitation for a million pounds, I don't think you should just be saying, well, it's another million-pound tournament. I think you have an obligation to international golf, as well as your home country and this is what applies in our time. Thank goodness you have Ernie Els, you have Tiger Woods, you have Vijay Singh and now looks like Mike Weir is very interested in international golf. As long as these fellows continue to play, and don't have sponsors -- because sponsors are the people that are making this possible. So if you fulfill our obligations and play in the Pro-Am and go to the lunch, I think it's fine. As long as that happens and people don't snub the sponsors, okay.

SEVE BALLESTEROS: I think it just keeps up with the time. You know, if you look when Nicklaus was winning 20 years ago, he was making a fortune and now if you're looking back he wasn't making much money. I remember when I won the British Open, in '79, it was 15,000 pounds the first prize. 15,000 pounds. When I won my first Order of Merit in '76, I think it was 16,000 pounds to the winner, 16,000 pounds just to make the cut now at some tournaments.

So I think it's great. I think it's just part of the game and the sport. I think it's good.

Q. Do you like the new format?

GARY PLAYER: Well, I think it's a pity that you have somebody like -- he just won recently, the British player, Lee Westwood. He had an opportunity, whatever the format to get in, but it's a pity that he's not in. I really can't comment on that. What is amazing to me though is to listen to Seve. I think this is one of the big problems that's going to be facing professional golf; not amateur golf, but when he as a young man he hit a driver and a 3-iron to the first hole and now hits a driver and a wedge. And this is what is happening now.

There are no more par 5s in golf. They are out; they don't exist anymore. In fact, the par 5s that were good par 5s were the inferior golf equipment that we played with and are the bounds of being illegal at the moment, hitting 7-irons to par 5s and you take Marion which is steeped in tradition, the U.S. Open would have Ben Hogan, Lee Trevino -- you can mention all of these wonderful names that won the Open -- now you go to the Open Championship at Muirfield, or you go to a U.S. Open and these guys are hitting irons off almost every tee as we've seen at the Open Championship this year and at Muirfield. They are hitting -- you very seldom see them put a driver in their hand.

If I'm a man who is paying to go, I don't want to see a man hit with an iron off every tee. I want to see Tiger and Ernie whip out those drivers. I think that they have to open the fairways, make them 55 to 40 yards wide and have rough this high to encourage them to be going with driver and cut the ball down 30 yards because I don't know of one pro whether he is 68 like me or 20 that doesn't want to have the ball cut back. So it's not going to affect the manufacturers because all of the boards are pretty similar now and it's marketing and branding and it's not going to affect them. But for the Amateurs, let them have what they like. They are two different games. But you cannot get that through to the USGA particularly, they are very satisfied with the way things are going. I think people who really know the game are very, very concerned.

SEVE BALLESTEROS: I think I made a comment a few months ago, I think it's two different sides. I think in the USA they are two different, they are supposed to develop the game of golf and they are making all of the equipment and make sure they are making it the right way for the Amateurs to enjoy. But for the pros, which we live, I think it should be different rules. It should be maybe make a move like they did in 1972 when they changed the ball from one side to a bigger side and I think the ball should be much bigger. Or perhaps less dimples to make sure the ball doesn't go very far. Because the problem today is that all of the golf courses they have designed for the length, maybe they are obsolete. It is difficult for Gary and myself and a few others because we have the opportunity to play on these type of courses but I think the rules have changed, it should be simplified and it should be different for the Amateurs and the professionals.

GARY PLAYER: As we sit here now from Wentworth to Timbuktu, they are spending hundreds of millions of dollars or pounds, whatever the currency you want to name, on rechanging golf courses. You eliminate all of that unnecessary spending and go into developing golf -- St. Andrews they are lengthening it by 300 to 400 yards.

Q. You mentioned some of the international players?

GARY PLAYER: Just having played with week, I think HSBC have done an extraordinary job. You notice improving and the tournament has always been run extremely well but it's hard to ask somebody who has played -- Seve mentioned he won 13,000. I won 1200 pounds for my first British Open. I do -- I would never change the time I played for now. Yes, I would love to play for this kind of prize money but I had a wonderful life playing golf and money wasn't the criteria. I don't know how you change that because for us money wasn't the criteria. I wanted to travel around the world and beat them, to try to be the best and beat them in my home country and maybe there's too much money. I don't know what the answer is. I can sit there and I say how the heck, in South Africa we have the million-dollar tournament, that's the title, first prize is $2 million. I approached four American players to play. The one guy said, "Gee, damn it. I would love to play but I'm having lunch with my granny on that day." (Laughter.) I said, "If you win the tournament you can buy your granny her own restaurant."

Honest to goodness the other guy said, "I'm tired." I said, "You're tired? I don't understand." He said, "Well, maybe I'll take a rain check." He hurt his shoulder and didn't play for two years.

Last prize is 200,000 and you have 12 guys. Now what's last prize in this tournament? A 100,000 pounds? Who knows. 75,000 pounds. My goodness me, did you make 75,000 in all five of yours? That would be interesting to see.

You either have the desire to want to be the best in the world and forget the money or it's not in you. That's the only way -- if you look at the pensions that the guys will be getting for finishing 80th is staggering. I had a pension but it's peanuts compared to those guys.

SEVE BALLESTEROS: What's your pension?

GARY PLAYER: My pension, top secret. (Laughter.) Arnold Palmer has a pension scheme, I would take a guess that it's less than $200,000 and I know that Nicklaus's pension scheme from both tours is less than $200,000 and guys would finish 80th and play for 20, 25 years, they will end up with probably $18 million.

So if you go to the figures, it's not only the prize money, the pensions, airplanes; it's staggering. It's beyond one's comprehension.

Q. Is the redesigning of Tiger¹s driver fair to other players?

GARY PLAYER: What does he have at his disposal that other players don't have? I don't think he can provide any more than Callaway. I would say that Callaway could provide more technology than any company on the world. I don't think Tiger has an advantage on that, no. I don't think so.

SEVE BALLESTEROS: Callaway has a better service.

GARY PLAYER: I think Callaway has the best.

Q. What made the two of you special in match play

SEVE BALLESTEROS: Maybe the desire to win. A lot of people are collecting paintings. A lot of people are collecting money. I think in my best time I was collecting paychecks, I finished one tournament and I was just taking the first prize, I was automatically thinking in the following week, I never was even thinking about going home.

Q. Does it demand a different philosophy?

SEVE BALLESTEROS: Match-play is pretty special. It demands a lot of desire, a lot of determination and it's just a lot of will power, I would say.

GARY PLAYER: I think it's a desire to win and not think about money. Guys who think about money are going to maybe retire early and do something else. It's a desire or a dream that you want to try to be the best.

Q. Would you agree Gary?

GARY PLAYER: I think match-play is a different philosophy. You can continuously be aggressive whereas when you play medal, there's 80 percent of the time that you can be aggressive. But it's a difference in philosophy.

Q. Do you think Tiger has made people adjust their goals?

GARY PLAYER: I think Tiger has definitely set the goal at a higher standard. You are going to have to go to the gym, you have to watch your diet. You have to have a great mindset or you ain't going to beat me. I think that Tiger has done a great job. It's just he's so talented that it's automatically happening. And from that point of view I think it's outstanding because we've got to have people to set the bar.

Q. Are they content to be second though?

GARY PLAYER: I don't know that. I can't answer how somebody else is thinking. But I think that -- no, I think guys now realize that Tiger can be beaten. We can see that he's the best. But if you look at what's going to happen in time, in 40 years time, and I mentioned this on BBC television and Peter Alstott (ph) said, it's a fact, in 40 years time, as we're going now, you're going to have a tour of Michael Jordans. There will be no normal fellows on the Tour. And they will all be hitting the ball well over 400 yards. They hit it over 400 yards now. Some tournaments they hit it 400 yards now. Hank Kuehne on a day like today and these fairways will hit it over 400 yards. It's going to be a different game.

SEVE BALLESTEROS: Unless they change the rules.

GARY PLAYER: Unless they change.

Q. Can you understand Darren Clarke pulling out of The Seve Trophy to play in the Tour Championship?

SEVE BALLESTEROS: That's the first time that you know that he's pulling out. Well, I feel sorry for Colin Montgomerie because his team is going to be a little bit weakened even though there's a lot of good players on the European Tour to replace him. But, you know, on the other hand, Sergio Garcia is going to play for my team, so that will give my team a better chance.

Q. (Inaudible)?

SEVE BALLESTEROS: He has no obligation to play in my tournament. It's a good tournament, good format, good prize money, the golf course is one of the best in Europe, in nice weather. You just have to decide where to go and where to play.

Q. You said if you had been blessed with Ernie¹s physique, you would have won 20 Majors. What would you like to see him achieve in the remainder of his prime years?

GARY PLAYER: Ernie has such a magnificent golf swing, he is such a fine young man, plus a great golf swing and I'm delighted that he has the desire to travel, be an international player. It's so terrific to see that. There's a feeling of just what he can achieve. Now he's going to the gym as well. The world is at his feet. He's got as much potential as -- I believe, as much potential -- I know he has as much potential as Tiger Woods that you find that difficult to tell anybody that overseas but I believe he does. It depends on his desire and as I say, he's got the world at his feet and there's no telling what he can win.

Q. Do you like the way your Presidents Cup team is shaping up?

GARY PLAYER: Yes, the Presidents Cup team that we have, the guys have just been playing unbelievable golf and I think we're going to give America a good run for their money. I really do. It's an extremely good team.

SEVE BALLESTREROS: I thought you didn't play for money Gary. (Laughter.)

End of FastScripts.