U.S. OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

June 16, 2004

Mark Michaud

Tim Moraghan

RAND JERRIS: Good morning. We're joined this morning in the interview area by on the left Mark Michaud, golf course superintendent at Shinnecock Hills for the past four and a half years, and Tim Morgan, who is the director of championships agronomy for the United States Golf Association. They'll just take questions from the floor.

Q. Tim, if you could just recapture for us the changes that have been made in the course between '95 for this championship?

TIM MORAGHAN: First off, though, for my behalf I'd like to thank the Shinnecock membership and several key people here at Shinnecock for allowing Mark to do what he's done best, and that's provide us with a really, really good test for U.S. Open golf. Charles Stevenson is the chairman and Cooper Lord, who is also part of the green committee have been very, very helpful to us since '95, and I owe them a debt of gratitude. We're looking forward to a pretty good week.

The difference between '95 and 2004 is several things. First, we're not as wet as we were in 1995. We did have some rain leading into the '95 championship, which altered the conditions away from what we would like as U.S. Open conditions.

Secondly, Mark, he and his staff have done the job of kind of cleaning up the place a little bit, gotten rid of some undergrowth and unnecessary tree growth that occurred over the last 20 or 30 years and has allowed the golf course to be played as intended, which has made it a little bit more of a test than it was in '95 for the players.

Then from our standpoint, we really didn't do a whole heck of a lot. We did add some length on holes No. 3, about 30 yards on hole No. 3, about 30 to 40 yards on hole No. 4, a small change on hole No. 5, about 15 yards, but really a repositioning of the teeing ground, and then hole No. 8, which is a significant change from 1995, which is about 45 yards, though keeping the original -- the teeing ground that we should have been using all along. They just wanted to keep that same line.

We have done a little expansion around the putting surfaces. As you remember in the early '90s we started to look to get away from just having tall penal primary rough directly close to the putting surface and really kind of took hold here at Shinnecock in '95 where we had probably a half a dozen green slopes that were closely mown and a couple of different bounces of the ball maybe to run away from the putting green and provide the player with a little different shot to get back on the putting surface.

Since Mark has been here he's worked really closely with Tom Meeks and myself with all the greens to add a little more variety on the putting surface so we'll have the firm, fast conditions that will allow the ball to bounce and roll a little bit, hopefully put a little different club selection in the players' hands this week.

That's really about it. Due to the dryness and the wind that we've had, our firmness is definitely more than it was in 1995 and our green speeds, because of the dryness, are a little quicker than they were in 1995?

Q. Whose idea was it to remove the trees, and if it was yours, was it a difficult thing to convince the membership of? I know you wanted to get it back to what Shinnecock was originally intended, but to me it just seems like a stroke of genius what you did out there.

MARK MICHAUD: Thank you. Actually the tree-clearing project had started before I had gotten here. Basically we went out and we looked at a lot of old pictures. We have a club historian, David Goddard who has preserved a lot of old photographs and maps and things like that, so we were able to look at the 1931 look of the golf course, and we just picked up where the staff left off before I got here and just expedited the process with the USGA's support. We were able to go through and really clean up the golf course, let the air through it. There's a little bit of effect on playability. You can see the pads flapping on the tee now. There's not the crowded-type situation around the tees where the wind is blocked and you really don't feel it.

Also, obviously it made the turf conditions a lot better. We have better air movement around the green complexes, the tee surfaces. It's enabled us to grow higher quality turf.

Q. Every player who was interviewed yesterday raved about the golf course and talked about the firm and fast conditions, and almost to a man they talked about the shaved areas around the greens and it's become more and more noticeable at championship most notably at Pinehurst. Is this going to be further considered for future venues? Next year we're back at Pinehurst, but in the future because it seems to present a different type of dilemma to the golfers? They've all been talking about it?

TIM MORAGHAN: I would say yes to that as one person's opinion. I think from the championship's committee perspective would like to add a little bit more shot-making in the U.S. Open. I think for years we got mired in that tall rough around the green which limited one type of approach shot or kind of flopping a sand wedge back on the surface. Really Sandy Tatum from my memory is the one that really started it back in Pebble Beach in 1992. We looked for areas at that time and I think we've learned as we've gone forward in that we don't want to force anything. You know, if it doesn't fit the design or the original intent or the interpreted original intent of the architect, we really don't want to try to force something.

Obviously Pinehurst is the epitome of the runoff situation, and if we can get something at Winged Foot that enhances the play around the putting surfaces or Torrey Pines or if we go back to Bethpage, we'll probably investigate it.

Q. You've been nursing the 14th green a little bit. Is there any weakness there? What's your target speed for greens and how much variance is there on greens to protect the real severe slopes?

TIM MORAGHAN: I think we're right where we want to be. Mark can elaborate on the 14th green scenario. There really is no issue from our standpoint. Green speeds are 12-plus right now and I think that is not only going to highlight incoming shots but a delicate touch on putting surfaces. Mark and I have met with his staff and our staff, and we're just going to take it as kind of a day-by-day thing depending on the weather.

Q. Mark and Tim, my question is if we get weather this week, rain, obviously it's a pretty sandy base out here. How much will rain affect speed of the fairways, speed of the greens and how much rain would we have to get really to affect the course like it affects other courses like Bethpage a couple years ago?

MARK MICHAUD: The course drains tremendously well. It would take several inches of rain to really soften this golf course. We can receive three or four inches of rain and actually still go out and mow fairways in the same day. We don't expect that much rain. There are some scattered showers in the forecast, but it's almost like we've had a bubble over us the last couple weeks preparing for this. A lot of thunder storms have come through and missed us. We've become quite famous for having bad luck with weather, and this is some of the 40-some odd tournaments I've been a part of, so I guess I've saved all my good luck for this one.

Q. Mark, do you have any idea the quantity of stuff you took out, either trees, truckloads? Do you have any idea how much you removed?

MARK MICHAUD: Yeah, a lot of the trees were two to three-inch caliber trees. Counting all those and medium-sized trees, several thousand, 6,000, 7,000 trees probably.

Q. With the changes you've made, where has the wind become a problem maybe in a place that it wasn't a problem in the last tournament here? And also with the changes you've made, what would you expect a good score to be this weekend?

MARK MICHAUD: Probably the place that it will most affect -- the tree clearing will most affect play is the 7th hole. There was pretty much a solid wall of trees behind that green, and in a 20 miles an hour wind, you can go out and stand on the tee, there was also a privet hedge around the tree, so not only were you protected at the tee from the privet hedge, the green was also protected from the prevailing wind coming out of the south and the flag could lay limp in a 20 mile an hour wind. Once we cut the trees down and got rid of the privet hedge, now the golfer is hit in the face by the wind and really feels it and is intimidated by it on the tee and then the flag stick is bent over about halfway and the flag is flapping. That's probably the place that will be most affected playability-wise.

Q. Speaking of the 7th hole, a lot of players have talked about that hole. Can you just talk a little bit about what makes that hole so difficult and if there is any -- give us any insight on that green?

MARK MICHAUD: About three weeks ago our staff and I were sitting in the office, and we all sat around and said this is going to be something unlike anybody has ever seen, including us. We've dried this course out, we've had our luck with the weather that we needed, and things are extremely firm and fast. We didn't expect 7 to be the most talked about, hardest hole, and it has ended up being that way and that's great.

The players seem to enjoy the challenge. A lot of the comments, I think we heard one person say it was unfair. He must have been forced to use a different ball or club or something because it's actually the same for everybody, and that seems to be the attitude, that everybody has the same challenge there. It takes a perfect shot to stay on that green. We'll have a lot of fun watching it this week.

Q. Do you know where you might put the pin on No. 7?

TIM MORAGHAN: We've looked at hole locations the last three or four days and Mike Davis and I are going to be setting up the front nine this week. We were out just hitting some putts, and yesterday in the afternoon watching where balls were going. It's a difficult hole. There's no question that the tree removal as Mark indicated has added a little bit of challenge into that shot. I mean, whether you hit a draw or a fade, right now the green is firm and there's a pretty good pitch from right to left, and we're going to watch it. We've probably changed a couple of hole locations just to put them in a softer spot so to speak so the player has the opportunity to make a good stroke and not be penalized for making a good stroke, so we are fully aware of what's happening out there?

Q. Players have been talking a lot about the rough this week, and in some cases that it's not as deep as they thought it would be. Is that by design or it just hasn't filled in?

TIM MORAGHAN: First off, no, it's not by design. We would like to have U.S. Open rough, but I think Mark can probably elaborate on the fact that drying the golf course out, some areas which you would consider primary rough haven't got the irrigation that they normally would because we're trying the make the golf course a little firmer and we're trying to address that on a day-to-day basis.

I think weather, irrigation, and just the way the golf course is set up a little bit different from '95. In 1995 we probably averaged 32 yards of width on our fairways and now we're down around 27. We've narrowed the field a little bit, and in doing so those outskirt areas are not getting the kind of irrigation and attention -- we've done the proper maintenance to get them to what we would consider U.S. Open rough, but whether it's the spring weather or the dryness or what have you, it's kind of hindered us a little bit?

Q. How much does this course today resemble the course when it was first built, and will it play similarly as it did -- obviously not with equipment, but will it play similarly as it did when it was first built?

MARK MICHAUD: The old pictures show that there were very few trees. All of Long Island has a very windswept low textured landscape. Also in the pictures it's more dune-like. There's not really a defined edge on the hazards. For a championship such as the United States Open, ruling needs to be made whether it's in the hazard or not.

So what we have done to the bunkers, we consider to be somewhere between original, maintainable and rulable.

Q. When great golf courses in America are discussed, Pebble Beach comes up, Shinnecock obviously comes up. You were at Pebble Beach. As far as a test, a pure test of golf, taking away the beauty of Pebble Beach, can you compare the two as to which is the more difficult?

MARK MICHAUD: Both courses require wind to make them difficult. I would say they're very equal in difficulty. I would lean towards Shinnecock. If I had to play the easier course I would say I want to play Pebble. When the wind is up, Shinnecock is a very stern test of golf.

I couldn't say which one I like better. They're both beautiful places, and I'm honored to say that I was superintendent at both of them.

Q. Where Corey Pavin hit his 4-wood from is now in the rough this year. I want to know if that's true and the fairway has been moved that much I guess by the changes that have been made?

TIM MORAGHAN: I really don't know exactly where Corey struck his 4-wood shot, and I really don't know if it's in the rough or not. We have narrowed fairways. That's kind of been the way we've been going. The players are very good, we're trying to put more premium on accuracy off the tee. That's kind of the way it goes. I really don't know.

Q. Mark, you're obviously out on the golf course every day. Are there things that still surprise you about the design, and if so, what are they?

MARK MICHAUD: Yeah, well, especially this week the bounces that we're seeing, the fairways and the greens are as firm as we have ever made them, so it makes it exciting and fun for us to watch the ball and where it is ending up. It's farther down the fairway because the ball is running a little farther, but in a shot that's slightly off line, it's even farther into the rough and more difficult to get back into play.

Our staff is really enjoying this week and the changes we've made and the level of difficulty that we've provided for a championship.

Q. Just to follow up, you mentioned that you're honored to have worked both at Pebble Beach and here. As a golf course superintendent what does it mean to you to be associated with so many major championships in your career?

MARK MICHAUD: Early in my career I was able to be part of the 89th U.S. Open at Oak Hill Country Club in Rochester, New York, which is my hometown. I guess once you become part of one of these events, either you love it or you're tired and never want to do it again. I couldn't wait to get to the next one. I've actually pursued volunteer at several championships and will continue to do so after U.S. Open. There will probably be a big gap in between this Open and the next Open we host at Shinnecock Hills, which I plan to be here for that one, also, and I will continue to go to the Open every year, and I would like to get down to the Masters again. I was there in '91 and '92. That's a very exciting week to be part of. Anything I can get to here -- Winged Foot is having the U.S. Amateur this year, one of my great friends, Eric Greytock is superintendent there, who is also superintendent at Pebble, and I plan to assist him in any way that I can, probably more moral support than anything.

Q. The fairways, is that a matter of just cutting and what happens in terms of fairway widths?

MARK MICHAUD: We narrowed the fairways two falls before a championship to make sure that we can get everything established and define an edge of the fairway to the intermediate cut and primary rough. The way we went about that is over seeding with rye grass over the whole golf course. We got everything established. Having rye grass it's much easier to make adjustments. With a situation where you have bent grass to blue grass to rye grass or whatever, it's harder with the bent grass to try to expand things and not have a line or a seam per se.

After the Open this fall, when we do the aerification, we meet with our board members and green committee and decide how much acreage we would like to maintain and try to return close to back to original. We have a lot of old maps and things, so it's something that I look forward to with great anticipation, to expand the fairways back out to original or close to, as well as green surfaces. Our green surfaces have shrunk down over the years just due to the riding mowers that were used in the past to expedite the process. It was a less costly way of maintaining the golf course, thus the greens turned into circular shaped where they should have a little bit more contour, more recognition of the bunker next to the green and the contour of the green itself.

So we're going to go out and get together and play architect and it's going to be a lot of fun.

Q. Can you describe the severity of the rough, meaning we've seen certain U.S. Opens where you could basically just try to slash it out and get back on the fairway. Can you describe Shinnecock's rough this year as to can somebody advance it to the green or will they have to lay up, that type of thing?

MARK MICHAUD: The rough didn't get quite as tall in some areas as we would like. We have a density that we want. If you're landing in the rye grass, you can see the ball and you're probably almost fooled into thinking you can hit it farther than you can. The rye grass is very sticky, dense grass, the way we fertilized it. We were watering here and there and trying to bring up the thinner areas and make them a little bit thicker. Then you always have the rub of the green. There's no reason to put somebody in the rough and make it completely impossible for them in my opinion. If you get lucky and you land in a little bit thinner spot, you have a shot, so be it. I think it's part of the game myself.

RAND JERRIS: I'd just like to thank Mark and Tim for their time.

End of FastScripts.