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April 5, 2005

Jack Nicklaus


BILLY MORRIS: Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. Once again, welcome to this year's Masters. We are delighted to have our six-time Masters Champion, Jack Nicklaus, back with us. I've had the privilege of interviewing Jack many times up here through the years, and Jack, would you like to start off with some questions or would you like to say something?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, I don't have a whole lot to say other than over the last few weeks has been a very tough time for our family. I appreciate all of the support that I've gotten from all of you and from all of the friends, friends that have written and called and everything that's happened.

I had cancelled everything after Jake passed away to spend time with Steve, which I did. And Steve wanted to play golf, because he didn't have anything else to do because he wasn't doing anything either, so we started playing golf. And I had no intention of playing golf whatsoever, but that's what he wanted to do. So we just played some golf at home and we decided to come up here and play. He loves it up here, and he said, "Can we go to Augusta?"

So I said, "Sure, let's go to Augusta." I came up here two weeks ago, and I came up here last week to play and I played with Billy. Billy brought us right to our knees, didn't you, Billy (laughter)?

BILLY MORRIS: (Smiling, nodding.)

JACK NICKLAUS: And anyway, I said, you know, hey, I've been playing golf; I had no intention of playing golf, but I've been playing golf and I'm not doing anything else and I said -- Steve and I talked about it, he says, "Go play."

He says, "You want to play anyway."

I said, "I want to play, but I don't have much of a golf game."

He said, "You'll have a golf game."

So I'm here. That's why I'm playing. I feel like, you know, next year is going to be tougher than this year to try to get a golf game ready, and this year, I can't say it's going to be much of a golf game, but it's going to be what I've got. And it may be my last time, it may not be my last time, probably will be, but we're here and we'll go play.

Q. Who is going to be on your bag this week?


Q. Steve will be at the British?


Q. Can you talk about the par-3 contest? A lot of people get their family involved; how special is it to play in and how many different family members have caddied for you over there?

JACK NICKLAUS: I don't even know if I'm going to play. We haven't really done much of that. I know a lot of the guys bring in their kids. Some of them bring in their grandkids and so forth and so on.

Right now I'm going to play today and find out what my body feels like tomorrow and see if I want to play anything at all. So I don't really know what I'm going to do. I don't have any of the grandkids up here now; they were up here yesterday and they went back. But I don't -- the Par 3 is a nice event for fun for the guys to play in, for people in the practice rounds to play in, but that's never been my priority, I must say. It may become my priority (laughter). I can reach all of those greens, I think (laughter).

Q. Over the course of your career, those times when you've come to a golf tournament, particularly a major, if you ever have, without much of a game, have you found that inspiration being at a place you really like can have much to do with you elevating your game?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, you know, yeah, it usually does. I mean, I usually figure out a way to play somewhat reasonably. I may screw it up somehow, but usually I figure out a way how to play golf. The only problem with this golf course is that I've come up the last two weeks and I spent half my time with fairway woods or medals, whatever you want to call them, in my hand, and when guys are playing 8- and 9-irons and wedges; and I'm sitting back there with a 4-wood or 3-wood or whatever it might be, I don't care how much it elevates your game, you're not going to be anywhere near what you should be.

I've always felt like if I'm going to play in a golf tournament, I like to be competitive, and this golf course used to be a golf course that I could probably still remain competitive on, only because it wasn't so demanding off the tee. Length was an important factor but it wasn't as demanding; accuracy was. Now it's demanding accuracy-wise, as well as the additional length makes it even more, because I'm going the other way, not the way a lot of the guys are going.

So it just makes it a very difficult golf course for me to compete on. I used to think this was the best chance I had to compete, and frankly, I think St. Andrews would be a far better chance because St. Andrews, you can get a little bit longer, but they can't get it long enough to where they make it so you can't play it. They are not going to lengthen the loop; at least I can get to all of those holes in two.

Q. Of the people that called or wrote letters or sent flowers, does anybody stand out?

JACK NICKLAUS: I can't think of anybody that I knew that hasn't. I know that -- I don't know how many thousands of letters or e-mails or calls that we got, but every one of them is special.

Q. Obviously you know you're popular, but did that surprise you?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, I think, I suppose -- and I don't use e-mail, thank goodness, but with that coming on, thousands of people that I don't know -- Barbara brought up yesterday, she said, "This is the latest stack that came in." I mean, it was this thick of e-mails, pages (indicating six inches thick). That was just what came in. So I sit down, and I haven't gotten to them all, but I get down to every one of them. It's amazing the number of calls and letters and things, and people I haven't heard from in 40, 50 years, you know, kids, guys I went to school with, things like that. It's been very, very nice.

Q. When you first came here in '59, there were eight international players in the field, and this year half of the field is international. Could you have imagined that or welcomed it?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, all I know is as captain of the Presidents Cup this year, that makes my job tougher. All of the guys that are here are pretty darned good players that have qualified, and there are going to be some that are not going to make the team on the International side that are pretty darned good. For some reason, either we are getting a little thinner on the American side, or the game has just picked up tremendously internationally, which I would basically say is what's happened.

Initially when I first played here in 1959, golf in central Europe was not even played. There was an occasional player that would play it. It was sort of an elite game. The game has changed tremendously through Europe. There were virtually no Asian players that were playing tournament golf. You've got players from every place in the world now that are playing golf and playing tournament golf and playing quite well.

So I'm not surprised at all to see the field be half international players because it's just -- it's just international players who have gotten so much stronger and so much better. Nothing surprising about that to me.

Q. What are the things you remember when you think about 1965 when you shot 271 here, particularly the 64, and was that the best week of tournament golf you ever played?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, I don't know that's the best week of tournament golf. It was certainly a good one.

All I really remember about '65 is that it was so easy. When you really play well, it usually is easy. It's just, you know, I don't know, you get to the end of the week, you try to explain this, it's just driver, 9-iron; driver, wedge; driver, 8-iron, whatever it might be, and it went where I was aiming, and I looked at a putt, just knocked it in. It was one of those weeks.

The 64 that I shot, I remember coming out on Saturday morning and I hit, the pin was on the front left on No. 1 and I was on the back of the green and I looked at the green and I said, "That green looks a lot faster than usual." That's always a fast putt to the front right of that green, or front left of the green, but that putt I judged perfectly and it just stopped like this over there (three inches), and I said, boy, that is quick, but that's the speed I love. I'll never forget that.

And I hit it off into the trees on No. 2 and chopped it out and hit it out there about eight feet behind the hole and knocked it in and just kept going from there.

But it was just easy. I've had weeks like that where I remember -- the last PGA that I won in 1980 at Oak Hill, I hit the ball just horribly that week. I hit it all over the world, but no matter what I did, I knocked a putt in to save what I did, so I just made a very easy week out of it. I'm sitting there sort of feeling like, you know, why is that happening, but the ball, it just kept going in the hole.

Every once in awhile that happens like that, and I promise you, it's a lot of fun.

Q. Can you tell us what your thoughts are, your memories or your first time here, who you played with, who you practiced with?

JACK NICKLAUS: No, I don't remember that, I frankly don't remember who I played my first round with. I played my second round with Roger McManus, I remember that. First round, I should know that. That was only 46 years ago (laughter).

But we stayed up at the Crow's Nest, I think they had a little ceremony yesterday, they related how much they were charging for extra steaks. I don't know whether you all know what they used do here, but now for the amateurs that come in, you're an amateur so they have got to charge you, so they charge you a dollar for breakfast, a dollar for lunch, and two dollars for dinner. Phil Rogers and I stayed together and we ended up having two shrimp cocktails and two or three steaks, and a few days later he comes back and says, "Jack, you're eating far more and we're going to have to charge you an extra two dollars for each steak," and I said, "Fine, we'll be happy to pay that, just bring the steaks on."

But we had a good time staying up there. Guys that were on the Walker Cup team together, it was Dean and Tommy Aaron, Phil wasn't on the team, but Phil was up there, and I think five of them stayed up there. It was fun. You know, we enjoyed that, and you sort of climb up to look out and watch what's going on outside. Just a bunch of young kids wanting to learn how to play golf. We played a lot of practice rounds together, all as a group, and we had good fun.

Q. You've always seemed a little reluctant to try to commit to when you might decide to stop playing at Augusta. You said this probably will be your last --

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, I thought last year was probably going to be my last year. You know, I don't think I need to make a big deal out of whether I'm going to play or not going to play. My time has passed. I've had my time at Augusta. I don't need a lot of fanfare for that. When I decide to quit, I can't think that that's any big deal, at least certainly not to me. I don't know why it should be to anybody else.

I just feel like if I decide I want to play and I'm invited to play and I have the right to play, so if I want to play, I'll go play.

And this spring, you know, I just -- I had no intention, I would have loved to come here and played, but I looked at my schedule, and the things I were doing which were far more important to me than playing golf. And I don't mean Jake, I meant prior to that, I looked at my schedule. I far more enjoy doing my golf course work and frankly I enjoy that more than hitting a golf ball right now, and frankly I do it better, and when you do something better than that, you enjoy that.

I didn't have any -- I had no intention of winning, although I would have liked to have played, and if the circumstances happen, which they did, actually, then I was going to play, but the British Open was different because this is my last year of any eligibility whatsoever at age 65, end of your eligibility, so here I'm eligible for life. If I want to come back someday and play here, I can.

So this will be my last time, somewhere in my head believing that I might be able to shoot a reasonable round of golf. But, you know, I may come back in five years, I may come back in ten years and decide I want to go tee and up and play, I can do that.

I'm not going to come back -- I think you all know me well enough. I'm not going to come back and clutter up the field if I don't have to.

Q. Through most of your life you've gone to tournaments with the ultimate in expectations, if I do what I can do, I've got a great shot at winning this. What are your expectations and goals for this week?

JACK NICKLAUS: I really think that, you know -- I mean, I think I can make the cut if I play halfway decent. I don't think that should be a stretch for me. Will I make the cut? Probably not. But do I think I should make it? Yeah, I think I could certainly play well enough to do that.

Do I think that I can go beyond that if I do that? Then we'll just have to see.

I don't have any -- I'll remember how to play golf if I get myself in a position to. I mean, that's one thing that fortunately that most of the guys that have played golf for a long time, when you get yourself in a competitive situation, you seem to remember what to do, and all of a sudden, oh, you do that? You just have a little 20-footer, you just tap it in, that's what you do. Sometimes those things happen. Sometimes they don't.

Two years ago I shot an 85 here, that was embarrassing, I think that was two years or three years, whatever it was. The wind blew like the devil and the golf course was hard. I probably could not handle those conditions again today. You have a day like you had here last weekend which it blew like 50 miles an hour, which it's possible to get one, I would have a hard time figuring a way to break 90 probably.

If we have decent weather and if I play decently, I should be able to stay within ten shots of the lead.

Q. So what were your expectations in 1986? A lot of people had brushed you aside, but what about yourself?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, they were a little more than they are now, that I promise you. That was only 19 years ago.

No, '86, I had worked, I still had a golf game, thought I had a golf game, thought I could compete. I had not played particularly well, but I continued to prepare and work at it like I could, wanted to. You know, I haven't done that now. I go play golf two days in a row, I've got to go take two days of rest.

Q. Do you remember exactly when you made the decision to play?

JACK NICKLAUS: About a week ago when my secretary was -- she says, "Now, look, I have to find out whether I'm going to get tickets for everybody or not get tickets for everybody."

I said, "Rose, I don't really know."

She says, "Well now, look, you've got to tell me. I've got all of these people who are asking me."

I said, "I'm going up to this week to play. Unless something stupid happens, tell them I'm going to play." And that was last week.

My secretary made me do that (laughter). That's the truth.

Q. With regard to Tiger, the dominant stretch that he had in 2000 and whatnot, do you feel like the rest of the field woke up and caught up to him, or do you feel like he's taken any steps back at all?

JACK NICKLAUS: I think a little bit of both probably. I think that -- I don't think Tiger has played his best the last year or so. He's still obviously the dominant player, but he's got so much talent, he can be -- like anybody who has dominated the game, myself maybe, or whoever it might have been at the time, I didn't have to play my best to win and Tiger doesn't have to play his best to win. But when he plays his best, he's going to probably win, but the other guys have all had to bring their game up.

Phil has obviously brought his game up and Ernie has obviously played very well, Retief has come on the scene and played very well. Vijay has obviously played very well. There's other guys that have played well.

You have to understand, the conditions make an awful lot of difference, such as Fred winning a couple of weeks ago. Those are conditions we don't see that much on Tour anymore where you have windy conditions, difficult conditions to control the ball and do things, and sometimes guys find the game happens fairly easily to them, but all of a sudden when they are tested, they don't seem to be able to pull it together and somebody else will sneak in and play. Because there are guys that such as Fred or Jay Haas that don't hit the ball as long as the other guys, so they figure out how to just get the ball around and that's what they have to get the ball around because they don't hit it out there 340 yards.

Q. Do you think we'll ever see a stretch like that or like what you had?

JACK NICKLAUS: Tiger may have another one. He may have a couple more, who knows. He's certainly blessed with a wealth of talent and he's got a fantastic work ethic and he has a great desire to win. When you have those combinations and you get mad at yourself and get upset, I did that several times in my career where I got tired of mediocrity and I finally went back to work. You can't keep yourself up here all the time, you're going to go through waves, I don't care who you are.

You've just got to -- one thing you want to do is try to control those waves. That's why the way I prepared for major championships, is I always built myself up for Augusta and let myself down; and built myself up for the U.S. Open and let myself down; and built myself up for the British Open. I did that so that I was always trying to climb a mountain going into a major championship, so that I knew I was focused and working on what I was trying to do.

I don't know how many other guys do that, but that's what I always did and that's how I kept myself playing and how I kept myself interested and how I kept kicking myself in the rear end just to get going. I didn't like to play poorly; it's just no fun. I don't think it's any fun for anybody, but some people can't do anything about it (laughter).

Q. We've seen domination with Tiger and Vijay, but this era, we haven't seen a development of rivalries, but the best players at their best, do you find the game might be more interesting?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, I don't know how to answer that question because I think the game has become a game of power. If you look at the power that's out there, those are the guys that are dominating or on the list that you're talking about, every one of them.

There's an occasional time when Mike Weir or Fred Funk or Jay Haas or somebody else who is not extremely long; like what Mike did here two years ago to me was phenomenal, to hit 50 percent of the greens and win this golf tournament is just unheard of, but you're going to have that.

The rivalries that you're talking about, I just don't think that you're going to have enough guys that hit the ball that far as long as the game remains as it is, that you're going to create. Well, I don't know, I guess you are, you have -- you're creating your rivalries, and you have five of them that are pretty darned good right now, they stand out. Actually, there are some overseas players that are not playing here all the time that are actually pretty darned good, too.

I just think it's harder to get what I call really good golf competing against good golf. The game today, it is good golf by today's standards, not by what my standards were, and I don't mean that in the way that I played better golf. I mean that in the way that the game today -- if I'm incorrect, correct me, but I think none of the Top 5 last week were in the Top 100 in driving accuracy; is that correct?

Q. Not in the Top 120.

JACK NICKLAUS: Not in the Top 120. Now, I always thought hitting the ball straight was part of the game.

I was a power player, no question about it. I got to this golf course, I had a tremendous advantage because I was longer than the other guys. But, you know, there was the occasional time I was asked to hit the ball in the fairway at a U.S. Open or a British Open or something else, and I was not -- I was long enough, but I still ended up having to pull the driver out of the bag.

Today, they are so strong and you can't get a golf hole long enough where they can take a 2- or 3-iron out and still put the ball somewhere in play and play, or they hit a driver so far that that 440-yard par 4 is a driver and a wedge no matter if they hit it in the rough or not, so it's a different game. It's a different game than I played. It's a different game than most anybody in my era played.

Of course, maybe I'm an old fuddy-duddy, I suppose. I like my game better, but that's not what it is. That's not the game today. The game today is what it is, and I guess you accept the game today for what it is, because the game continues to change. It would be like us, my era, going back and playing wood shafts. We're not going to go back and play wood shafts and they are not going to go back and play wood drivers, either, today. The game is what it is.

But you would think there's got to be some way that you could take the game today and put more shot-making back into the game where a guy has to put the ball in play. Obviously, at TPC they had to put the ball in play. I mean, the rough was pretty strong there. You had a guy who puts the ball in play, Fred basically leads the Tour in driving accuracy, and that's what really was the big factor in that golf tournament.

So, I don't think I answered your question, but you understand where I'm coming from? I think y'all understand where I'm coming from.

Q. When your rivals did emerge, Watson, Trevino, did you relish that? Did it change anything?

JACK NICKLAUS: Oh, absolutely. Because I knew they could play golf. I knew when Trevino came along, he could really play. Watson could really play. I knew that both of them could keep the ball in play, and I knew that it didn't make any difference what kind of golf course we were playing on, that they would be there because they figured out how to take their game to that level to do it. So I knew I was going to have -- I could take my game to that level, too.

Sure, there were courses are none of us could play, but most of the time we could play all of the golf courses. It seems today we are figuring out, we don't just really go St. Andrews and play St. Andrews. We don't just really go to Carnoustie and play Carnoustie. They take the golf course and have to do something radical with it to make it play.

Look at radical here, you don't think of this as radical, from the concept of what we've had at Augusta National of being able to -- Bobby Jones having a second-shot golf course. This golf course is not a second-shot golf course, it's still a second-shot golf course, but you've got to drive the ball, you've got to hit the ball far enough to get it over the top of the hill, and anybody who is of average length today puts it in the face of every hill. And you go back and look at it, you look at where you hit the ball out here today and see the advantage that the big hitter has.

But they have still taken this golf course, and you know, made it a different golf course. Trees are planted everywhere trying to control the long player to make them hit it straight, but there's still no rough. The rough out here is not really rough, just a semi, makes the ball hard to control and a bit of a flier, to those guys, it means nothing, phfft. How do you spell that?

Q. Are you in favor of a universal ball for tournaments like this and majors?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, I don't know whether you'll have a universal ball. I've said that many times, there's only one place that could do that to start it, and that would be here. The only tournament that could get away with saying: "Hey, do you want to come play in the Masters? Here's the ball, go play it."

Do I think that's the right way? Probably not. Do I think it's possible? Probably so.

The thing that -- I don't think that any manufacturer -- the guys playing it want to play the ball that they play, and they are used to the playing characteristics of that golf ball. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Although, basically, we've played with, I don't know, 334 dimples, 336, and all of the balls were the same mold base through most of my career until about the late '70s. And then they started making the odd-looking golf balls with different dimple structures and so forth which had different flight trajectories and kept working off of -- I've lost where I was.

Each manufacturer, if the USGA or if the Tour does it someday, or even Augusta, Augusta could say to the manufacturers, guys, we want you not to play your golf ball here, but I want you to tone back your golf ball 10 percent and we'd like to have those golf balls approved before next year's tournament; and everybody plays the same dimple structure, just have a golf ball that goes 10 percent shorter or 12 percent or whatever it might be; used to be 4 or 5 percent, 6 or 7, and now I think it's 10 or 12 percent.

You can do that. You could do that and everybody will have the same characteristics. How long will it take a player to get used to that? Phfft. Two rounds of golf. How long does it take to change every golf course that they play? A lot. How much money does it take? A lot. What does it take to change a golf ball? They took from making an average golf ball or a better golf ball or longer golf ball, they could certainly take it back the other way very easily without very much cost.

That's just my philosophy. Am I right? I don't know. But we don't have against the onslaught of what we have today with the power in the business. We don't have a championship golf course in the world today with any standards, including this golf course here. All of the golf courses have gotten -- the golf ball has gotten beyond it.

You remember what Hootie did to this golf course two years ago? We played it, and he was ahead of the curve. In one year he got behind the curve again. He doesn't know where to go. I mean, Hootie came out on the golf course here when we were playing and we drove in the locker room, and the first question he asked me, "Jack, what are we going to do about the golf ball?"

I said, "Hootie, I've been out-driving you for 30 years." I haven't been very successful, and I don't really know the answer to the question, and I don't really think you can really just take a ball and have a bin on the first tee and say, "Take this ball on and play it," because the guys haven't played it. But if the ball has the same characteristics to it, then we bring thousands of golf courses back into play as championship golf courses without change.

What difference does it make it a guy hits it 330 or 290 if everybody has the same relative distances? Did I answer your question? I always go a little too far on that one.

Q. What do you think of Annika Sorenstam on and off the course?

JACK NICKLAUS: I don't know Annika very well. She's obviously played very well and obviously done very well. I've played with her a couple times. She can play. She's a nice gal, but I don't really know her.

Q. One more question on this equipment. Have you addressed -- I haven't heard you talk too much about the belly putter. There seems to be an increasing volume of talk about doing something about the belly putter.

JACK NICKLAUS: I don't have any issues whatsoever one way or the other on it. I've used all of my energy on the golf ball (laughter).

First, what I said here before, I don't think we're going to go back to wood shafts. I don't think these guys are going to go back to wood heads. I don't think it makes a whole lot of difference. You're not going to change the equipment the kids have grown up with. The technology is supposed to be good for the game, but, you know, what the technology has become, it's become a good player's technology. It started out to be an average golfer's technology, player improvement clubs, but they took that player improvement club and made it into a golf club that really, they wanted the pros to play. And so they have taken the technology over the top to where the game really helps the pros, helps the big hitter; doesn't help the average golfer.

You get something as high-tech as a golf ball is and high-tech as a driver, you hit it so far in the rear end, and they hit it in the rear end every time. The average golfer hits it in the rear end one out of ten times or one out of 20 times, and when they do, they say, "Oh, look how far that ball goes." But the other 19 times, they lose about 50 yards. How do you learn how to play with 50 yards of difference between a good shot and a bad shot? We didn't used to have that.

I think the game is much harder for the average golfer. I'm more concerned that -- well, I'm concerned about both, but I'm concerned about bringing people in the game and keeping them in the game, because I think game with today's equipment is much more difficult to play. I think that the equipment -- if a guy is going out to get a driver, I can go out and get one that's not quite as high-tech, get a golf ball that's not quite as high-tech; he's going to have a better golf game. He's not going to do that. He's going to buy what Tiger has or whatever Ernie has or Vijay or whatever it is, because that's what they advertise, and I don't think that's in their best interests.

Q. How is the family in general, and especially Steve?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, Steve and Krista, they cry themselves to sleep every night which I think is understandable and probably good for them.

We have our issues with what goes on with that. I think that's fine. I mean, not having issues, we spend our time together hugging and do what we do and we've spent -- they brought the little boy up here, Stevie, up here with them yesterday, and there really wasn't anything for Stevie to do yesterday; but they were not going to leave him at home, not at this point with what's going on. They want to spend as much time and that's fine.

You know, you're never going to get over something like that, and you shouldn't. You know, that's always going to be part of their life and they have to live with that, and so do we and we understand it and we've got great memories of things. But, you know, there's nothing anybody can say, and no matter what you say, you always think it's the wrong thing to say because there's no right thing to say. You just move on to what you have to do and grieve as you would grieve and do as they do and say life will get better, but it's difficult.

Q. For most of us, the name "Jake" has just been a name we read in newspaper stories, what can you tell us about him?

JACK NICKLAUS: Well, Jake was 17 months old. He's just starting to develop a personality. He's just running around. They said he was the smartest one of the kids because as soon as he ran into a room he saw me he went like this (indicating open arms). (Laughter).

And he came in and the mother and dad couldn't get him out of my arms. I'd try to give him back and he would go "Uh-uh." They said that was the only kid that does that. I said, well, "That kid is set for life." (Laughter).

He was just starting to talk, just jabbering a few words. But, you know, as a grandparent, I don't see -- I didn't see Jake, maybe a couple times a week or whatever it might be; or if I'm away obviously I don't see him for a couple of weeks and so forth. But he was a cute little kid.

You know, the parents, they had that child from birth and they grow with that. That's a whole different story for them and the hardest part is watching your children suffer. That's the hardest part, going through the whole thing, it's a double-whammy for a grandparent, that's just not supposed to happen.

BILLY MORRIS: Jack, thank you very much. It's always good to have you at Augusta, and we hope you'll be back here many times more; and to you ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your questions.

End of FastScripts.

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