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July 10, 2017

Greg Sankey

Birmingham, Alabama

MODERATOR: I would like to welcome you to the 2017 Southeast Conference Football Media Days. We're glad you're here. We'll lead off today's festivities with the Southeast Conference Commissioner, Mr. Greg Sankey.

GREG SANKEY: Thank you, Kevin. Welcome, everyone. It's good to have you in Hoover for SEC Media Days. Just one correction to Kevin's instructions about live video, we've made an exception for the SEC Network, so that one's okay.

I was reminded actually two years ago, I walked in and periscoped walking into Media Days. And a number of you corrected me via Twitter that that's actually prohibited by our credentials. So we do take that particular issue seriously.

Well, I hope you enjoyed the 12 days between the finale of the college world series and today, the unofficial kickoff to college football -- college football season, what we know as SEC Football Media Days. We used to sing 12 days of Christmas. We're working on 12 Days of Summer as a new song. It does go quickly.

But we also hope that despite the activity, I know there's a lot that happens, a lot of moving parts, that this is a productive week for each of you. We have our staff who served greatly through these next few days, the staffs from our universities and a number of volunteers to help support your efforts. So please take advantage of them.

I also want to welcome in addition to all of the media, those of you who are affiliated, whether it be with Bowl games, who are part of either the College Football Playoff, the College Football Universe, or particularly those with whom we have relationship, those of you who are parts of foundations or associations. All of which support the great sport of college football. You are important to us.

Also important to us is that later this year, in fact on December 9th, we will mark 85 years since the Southeastern Conference was created. It happened back in 1932 in the Old Farragut Hotel in Downtown Knoxville.

It's hard to believe that such a great organization came out of times when we are in a Great Depression, for example, as a country, and yet we still thrive. It's important because time moves so quickly that we take moments and be intentional to stop and remember both important events and special people who contributed to the fabric of the Southeastern Conference.

Now, we like to think every year in the SEC is special and last year was no exception. For example, the SEC won national championships in six different sports. We saw the National Championship Finals in women's basketball and in baseball comprised of only SEC teams. I think maybe the most remarkable statistic, and they're all important, is that every one of our 13 softball teams was selected to participate in the NCAA softball tournament. In outdoor track and field, we have eight of the top men's teams and five of the seven top women's teams.

They provided three of the Elite 8 men's basketball including an all SEC final in Madison Square Garden between Florida and South Carolina, which produced our Final Four team this year, the University of South Carolina men's basketball team. And for the tenth time since 2006, an SEC team played for the College Football National Championship.

As a reminder, SEC teams have won 8 of the last

11 national championships. Four different teams have claimed those titles, unique among the conferences. The year ahead will provide us with some opportunities to remember some special people and some special moments in this conference, beyond just 85 years of existence. It's about people who are more than history, but people who formed our story.

To do this, I want to take you back to 1967. Many of you weren't around in 1967. Those of you who were, that memory may be a bit hazy at this point. So let's share a few facts about that year. First, Super Bowl I was played in

Los Angeles. The American Basketball Association was formed giving us multi-colored basketballs. The Kentucky Colonels, Pittsburgh Piper, Minnesota Muskies and the Indiana Pacers, amongst some others that have endured.

Senator John McCain was a naval aviator shot down over North Vietnam, and he became a prisoner of war. Thurgood Marshall appointed as the first African-American to serve on the United States Supreme Court. Any search of history reminds us of the protests around the United States' involvement in the Vietnam War at that time and the unrest throughout the country around race and civil rights issues.

And on September 30th, 1967, Nate Northington, a sophomore football student athlete at the University of Kentucky ran on to the gridiron at Kentucky's Stoll Field to play in the Southeastern Conference football game against the University of Mississippi making him the first African-American to represent an SEC University and a varsity football contest as a varsity student athlete in the SEC.

This September will mark the 50th anniversary of that Autumn Saturday. If you know the story, you know there's sadness associated with what happened that day. The day before on Friday evening, Nate Northington learned that his roommate and Kentucky football teammate, Greg Page, had died as a result of an injury he suffered during football practice earlier that year.

Nate learned that tragic news from his head coach the morning of September 30th, the day on which he played in that football game against Ole Miss. When the Kentucky football team reported for preseason practice in 1967, there were four young African-American men who were part of that program; Nate Northington, Greg Page, Wilbur Hackett and Houston Hogg. Northington and Page were varsity players. Hogg and Hackett freshman recruited to join Kentucky's team.

These four men, one whose life was lost too soon, one who broke the color barrier in football in the southeastern conference and two others who carried forth the torch of change in Kentucky in the SEC dealt with realities most of us don't understand, and they were not alone over the years this change took place.

Later that same fall, Nate Northington decided to transfer. He didn't leave Kentucky without encouraging his two teammates, Hogg and Hackett, to remain and finish what he and Greg Page had started. Houston Hogg finished four years of studying and playing at Kentucky. He married and raised

6 children at last count, had 19 grandchildren. And remarkably he and his wife, Deborah, opened their home to over 200 foster children during their lives.

Wilbur Hackett was eventually elected Kentucky's team captain, the first African-American elected as a team captain among any of the SEC teams. Wilbur later became a football official in the SEC, and he still works today with our officiating program. If you do a Google search on Wilbur, probably the first thing you'll find is him meeting with Stephen Garcia at a football game at South Carolina a few years back. And he served well. In fact, these were and are remarkable people.

In April of 1963, not far from this very sport in the early portion, a letter from Birmingham Jail, Dr. Martin Luther King, Junior wrote this quote: We're caught in an inescapable network of mutuality tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly.

By playing in a football game on September 30th, 1967,

Nate Northington affected us all. This network of mutuality involves more than the four football players at Kentucky, more than just one date, one sport, one team, or one university. I've heard enough to know the names of the people I'm about to read are important, and I've heard some of their stories because they are the people who were among the first African-American student athletes either on their campuses or in this conference. I'm going to read these names. Wendell Hudson from Alabama in basketball. Gill Brown in football at Arkansas, then a member of the Southwest Conference. Henry Harris in basketball at Auburn. Johnny Brown at the University of Florida running cross-country in the fall of 1967. And Ron Coleman who was the university's first African-American scholarship student athlete completing in track and field the next spring. *maxi Foster in track and field at Georgia.

As I mentioned, Nate Northington in that varsity football game. Henry LeBoyd in baseball at LSU. Coolidge Ball an Ole Miss basketball player. Robert Bell and Frank Dowsing at football at Mississippi State. And Missouri, it was the 1958-59 season, then as a Big Eight member, they had Al Abram join as a basketball player. South Carolina, the name is Jackie Brown, Carlton Haywood and Casey Manning, Lester McClain in football at Tennessee, along with James Craig and Audry Hardy from the volunteers track and field program.

Texas A&M, that institution was in the Southwest Conference, Curtis Mills, Sidney Chachere, Hugh McElroy, Edgar Harvey in track and field. At Vanderbilt, it was Godfrey Dillard and Perry Wallace, its freshman basketball players in 1966 and '67 season. Perry Wallace as a member of the varsity team at Vanderbilt becoming the first African-American varsity basketball player in the Southeast Conference during the 1967-68 season.

One more note of honor for Stephen Martin who at Tulane University became the first African-American student athlete to represent an SEC member institution on the playing field, which Tulane was as a member of the SEC in 1965.

Within this list of names, there are stories of success and tragedy, achievement, and disappointment, heartache, and hurt, and yet, forgiveness and reconciliation, dignity, and grace. The contributions to change go well beyond football, and the winds of change began earlier than the fall of 1967.

But the seeds of change planted by Stephen Martin, Nate Northington and Perry Wallace and so many others have blossomed today into hundreds of opportunities in every SEC sport all across the campuses of our great universities. From all of the stories, particularly those stories of Kentucky's four, it was a comment from Nate Northington that stood out to me. According to an article in the Louisville Courier Journal, when he transferred from the University of Kentucky, someone told him the experiment of African-Americans in the SEC was a failure.

Last year, the ceremony unveiling a statue to honor Nate and his three teammates which now stands on Kentucky's campus, he said this, quote, now, it doesn't look like a failure to me, end of quote.

If you look to the 2017 SEC football championship game, at the new Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta, we'll invite Nate Northington, Wilbur Hackett and Houston Hogg along with the family of Greg Page to join us in remembering, honoring and celebrating what they helped change 50 years ago. And beyond just this game in December, just as has happened on many of our campuses, at the conference level, we see unique opportunities to honor the courage and leadership shown by so many in changing the face of the Southeastern Conference.

We are indeed caught in an inescapable network of mutuality. Those who endured in the early moments of change, serve as a reminder of our mutual responsibility to support the opportunities for young people today, make certain we foster their education and their graduation, support the hiring of coaches and administrators with an eye towards the diversity present on our intercollegiate athletic teams and bring together our communities, both despite and because of our athletic rivalries.

In April of this year, I saw an incredible picture of what Dr. King described in his observation that were caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly affects all indirectly. It was April 9th, a Sunday, I was invited to join in the parade in Columbia, South Carolina, celebrating the Gamecocks national championship in women's basketball, and as I rode through the parade, you can imagine there was a smile on my face for two reasons; one, knowing the SEC had the two teams playing in that year's -- this year's women's basketball national championship game, Mississippi State and South Carolina. But the other reason was because as I rode through that parade route and looked at the people cheering, what I saw were in the crowd, men and women, young and old, all different socioeconomic statuses, black and white, all different ethnicities, all joined together in celebrating their team.

And that celebrated -- that celebration concluded on the steps of the South Carolina State Capitol, where two years ago through the leadership of many in that state, and following a tragic shooting in a Charleston church, the Confederate battle flag was lowered and removed from the State Capitol grounds for a final time. The result is opportunity for young people. And last March, the SEC and NCAA returned basketball tournaments to Greenville, South Carolina, for us, the first time since 2005 that had occurred.

It should also not be missed that when African-American woman, Dawn Staley, stands on the steps of that State Capitol, as a coach joined by her team with throngs of fans recognizing her leadership and the achievement of that team. She's there not only as the coach of the Gamecocks, but also of the United States Women's Basketball National Team. It's then that we understand that whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.

All of this reminds me of the lyrics from one of my favorite bands, U2 from their album from 2000 All That You Can't Leave Behind, the lyrics include these words, what once was hurt, what once was friction, what left a mark no longer stings, because grace makes beauty out of ugly things. Our journey is certainly not complete. There's hurt. There still remains friction, but to those who helped us change and to those who will help us change in the future, thank you for the strength and the grace you've shown.

Now, there's no articulate way to segue from what I think is important to say to dealing with some of the questions on your mind, but consistent with my last two years, I'm going to take an opportunity for some questions. I have, however, tried to anticipate a few you may have. So I'm going to work through some more direct and current topics, but I would encourage you to think about the words and the people whom I just described because they helped change us and helped present our future.

This past weekend, we had 68 student athletes in the conference office in downtown Birmingham. It was a vision that we created a couple years ago to bring together our Student Athlete Advisory Council, a newly created leadership council in football, men's basketball, and women's basketball. They learned. They served in this community. They invested in their personal and leadership development. They told me what they think about NCAA rule changes and talked about transfer policies, told us how they view those things, and those differences of opinions. We talked about days off around Christmas holidays for men and women's basketball players, the structure and timing of summer workouts.

We also discussed internship opportunities and how they prepare for their next stage in life. Those few days are some of the best days I have because there's an energy and optimism and a strength present in our student athletes. We also brought them to Atlanta last December, two student athletes for each of our campuses for a career tour interacting with leaders talking about how they develop personally and move towards transitioning from a college student athlete to an adult professional in a career. We're going to continue that again this year and try to expand it to involve move student athletes because the top of their agenda is how we help them prepare for their life.

And one of the aspirations along their journey is that we want them to access what we introduce this year, the SEC graduate patch, there are 157 football student athletes in Bowl games display that patch. And I think if you look at Austin Allen's lapel pin today, you'll see a little bit of a representation of how important that is to each individual.

From that, let me talk that last year we had the first experiment in collaborative instant replay in football. It's a request we made of the NCAA football rules committee back in December of 2015. By all accounts, it worked well. We connected technology. Our staff did great work in making certain that that innovation would function properly. We're still not perfect in officiating. We'll strive for that this year, and Steve Shaw tomorrow at 8:30 will explain how that goal might be achieved. I'll let that hang in the air just for a moment.

We're also pleased that after six years, as our coordinator, Steve will continue, but he takes on an additional role beginning September 1st as the secretary editor for the NCAA's football rules. You may know leaving football for a second that we have asked for permission to experiment with collaborative instant replay this year in men's basketball. I think the technology and the innovation has application to a number of sports, but you can't just jump through all of these at once. So we will now look to experiment in basketball, and our staff is working to implement that for conference play. So you won't see that until it's conference-versus-conference contests.

We're seeking permission from the NCAA Baseball Rules Committee to expand the use of instant replay in baseball. I want to be clear that's not a collaborative process at this point. So it's not centralized, but thanks to the work of our friends from ESPN, the SEC Network, and notably our campus production staffs, we've got a level of baseball coverage in this conference that's unparalleled. And we can take advantage of that and maybe enhance the use of replay, at least that is our desire.

Here in Destin, if you recall, we had on the agenda a series of legislative changes around transfer policies. And when we left Destin, we left with some policies changed particularly on graduate student athlete transfers. That shouldn't have been a surprised. We did not act on every idea that was introduced. And we said then that there's an NCAA transfer working group which, by the way, Ole Miss Ross Bjork serves on the NCAA transfer working group. And we had an interest in learning what that group will discuss and decide over the next 10 to 12 months.

From their meeting two weeks ago, we saw a set of concepts, one of which was the idea that financial aid should not be tied to whether a school grants permission to contact. That's one of those control points in transfers. I think it's time for that to be, not only discussed, but I think that's something that should move forward from my perspective, and that is my perspective.

I also think the discussion about influence over communication and destination choices is both timely and should move forward rapidly. I think you have to understand, there are a lot of pieces to those solutions. Yet, I'm pleased the working group is having both the right conversations in talking about the right issues.

Shifting to conduct matters, two years ago, the conference adopted a ground-breaking policy governing transfer student-athletes and issues related to interpersonal violence that may be present in their background. Last year, we updated that with some expectations of due diligence. I told you after our working group completed its review and introduced an updated policy that we expected to continue to this further -- we continue with this further review.

So, since that time, we've seen colleague conferences in the Big 12. The PAC-12 adopted similar, but not identical, policies. The University of Indiana has taken action as well. It's time for us to reengage the working group to look at these issues. I'll work with the chair of our presidents to do that, and that will take some time. I think our policy has worked the well. Our institutions are in communication, but it's never too soon to continue to be attentive to these issues.

On the national issues in the football front, we had a conversation in Destin about our perspective on the 14-week season being consistent in college football. So that would mean 12 regular season games and 2 open dates. We have that on a bit of an ad-hoc basis depending on what the calender permits.

I want to be clear about the perspective that came out of those conversations. There's not opposition here to a 14-week season. There's curiosity and interest. There are two important points that were communicated; one, we don't want to see practice begin even earlier in the summer. It moves back this year a few days because of the health and safety changes introduced. By the way, those health and safety changes were adopted and supported by the Southeastern Conference.

As I understand the start dates for practice, not everybody moves back a week. There is sensitivity to student athletes who are completing summer school and not adding further interruption to their process. There's also an interest in keeping the number of preparatory practice opportunities. The number is 29 right now, and we'll do the math at the podium for you. Not all of our programs use those 29 opportunities, but all were clear that they wanted that flexibility if the situation dictated that that was appropriate to be used.

We're open to those ideas. We're open to a 14-week season, but we want to be very careful about not moving the standard for football practice even earlier into the summer. In February, the Football Rules Committee will meet. One of the things that we hope that they'll do is make what is an experimental rule, that being collaborative instant replay permanent. We think it's appropriate. We are pleased to see further adoption of collaborative instant replay across the country. Some of the models vary. We respect that. That's part of an experiment. We hope as we head towards the Rules Committee meeting that we see instant replay standardized.

We think there's some adjustments to be made in the game. I will expect you will see a lot of conversation related to the length of game and timing of games. We're working in different ways with our schools and our media partners to be intentional and focused around halftimes, making it as close to 20 minutes as can be managed, making sure we're in and out of media breaks quickly. We will have television advertising. That's part of our reality. And also within the game itself, around certain plays, scoring plays come to mind quickly, that we move with, if you will, a sense of urgency to keep the game flowing as best we can.

We hope that this will be a topic of conversation, but want to be very careful about not impacting directly the game itself. The college game stands unique. We think it should, but again we're open to this conversation and look forward to it happening. There was a survey circulated by

the Football Rules Committee, I think two issues were noteworthy there; one, their consideration of blocking below the waist and how that might manifest itself in the future from the player's safety perspective, and the second, continuing the evaluation of how we protect players from what you call blind-side blocking. Progress was made a couple years ago. And we think that's important, an important focus area.

Also, while there may be frustration from time to time over targeting calls, we're focused on player safety. We think we've made great progress. We think part of the reason to have replay involved is it helps us officiate better. It is a difficult rule to officiate. Many of you have observed that, but it is about the safety of our players.

I expect you'll ask about football recruiting because believe it or not, I do read what you write and the expectation is you will probably ask our coaches, do you know that they've expressed some concern over some areas. There's also clearly some areas in the new football recruiting package that we view as positive. They have certainly the freedom to speak their minds, but I'm fully confident that each of them will recruit and focus on recruiting at the highest levels within the context that the new rules provide.

We have, though, understood that the NCAA will review these rules over the next two years. As an outcome, our head football coach is meeting and working with Ole Miss head coach Hugh Freeze who chaired our football coaches this year. We've recruited a group to work with myself and our staff with the athletic directors and head football coaches to engage in dialogue what is happening on the recruiting trail and what might optimally we seek as a longer term solution.

The two athletics director, Scott Stricklin from Florida, Scott serves on the NCAA Football Competition Committee. And Jeff Long in Arkansas, Jeff serves on the NCAA -- he's a new member of the NCAA's Football Oversight Committee. And you know his role on the College Football Playoff Committee. We have four coaches involved too; Barry Odom, Derek Mason, Gus Malzahn, Nick Saban. Those are the four coaches, the two athletic directors. We had a conference call once to talk about the reality, to talk about what may happen and look forward to that dialogue continuing.

Lastly, we talked about the media landscape. I confess to spending more time to looking at those articles than I did to some of your articles, except for the weekend heading into Media Days. We are continually attentive to the media landscape. We know there's change occurring around us. We are grateful to the two media partners, both CBS and ESPN. They are different circumstances, yet they are both strong and innovative media entities.

We expect both to thrive, and we expect the SEC Network to thrive. Keep in mind we have long-term distribution agreements with nine of the ten additional cable providers. And SEC Network is now available on every multi-channel streaming subscription service currently in the marketplace. And we're uniquely positioned that way. There's no other conference specific or sports specific channel that has that distribution on these new providers, like DIRECTV NOW, Hulu, Playstation Vue, Sling TV, CenturyLink and YouTube TV. That's part of adapting to the changing media TV landscape.

We also have international distribution in

50 countries and also announced the addition and inclusion of Mexico as part of the destination for the SEC Network. That was announced this spring. On Monday night, we will have a programming change. So this is news. Monday night at

7:00 p.m., we'll have a program called "thinking out loud" because we know people can't talk about SEC football with any more frequency, so we'll feed that a little bit.

Greg McElroy and Marcus Spears will be part of a one-hour football only discussion show, a mix of discussion, debate and live interaction with viewers. It debuts

September 1st and continues through the Monday after our championship game December 1st.

Lastly on the network front, at least for now, beginning next spring, so I'm getting ahead of your day planner, we will add live coverage of events on two Sunday nights in February for swimming and diving and indoor track and field finals. That's a new hour. It is available on the digital platform. We'll also televise the finals of our men's golf and women's golf match play championships on a Sunday morning in April. The same Sunday afternoon in April, men's tennis and women's tennis championships matches will be aired on the SEC network. And on a Sunday night in May and prime time, our outdoor track and field finals will be aired.

One more note on the network, Thursday morning at 9:00, we'll feature a special on George Rogers, which is our next SEC story film that is in this room at 9:00 a.m., before I go to questions so can ready the microphones now, Tuesday, Rich Mckay from the Atlanta Falcons will be here at 12:30 to talk about the new Mercedes-Benz Stadium. And if you haven't picked up on it, that logo is the roof of the Mercedes-Benz stadium. So we're clearly excited both about the football championship game being hosted in the Mercedes-Benz Stadium and the College Football Championship game being hosted there in January.

On Wednesday morning, Football Writers Association presentation and college football director, Bill Hancock, will be in this room. So, if you need anything, our staff is here, contact Herb Vincent. You can all go to Herb at once. He'll figure out where to send you. Because if you didn't notice, when you walked in, it just means more.

MODERATOR: Thank you, Commissioner. We have time for a few questions.

Q. Greg, I wonder if you guys have evolved any further towards a comprehensive plan for football game interruptions due to tropical storms and other natural disasters that might happen?
GREG SANKEY: Obviously a lot of learning last year. We didn't have a policy as a conference once you move past game day. That's has to be the authority of the Commissioner to designate the game day. That has been corrected. The membership voted, both our athletics directors and our presidents unanimously to say the Conference Commissioner has the authority to place that game, number one.

Number two, we also had a couple pieces of policy that set the expectation that all eight conference games be played in order to be eligible for the conference championship. We've made that now an explicit Commissioner's regulation. Again, our athletics directors and our presidents voted 14-0 to endorse that clarity of rule.

We've also talked since our athletics directors' meeting in December about the very specific contingency plans that happen on our campuses. We meet with our athletic directors next month, and those items will be another topic of conversation. And if you can imagine, just from a practical standpoint, we had a few war games in our office about what if. We will engage in that process as we move towards football season again. The two key policy changes to say explicitly, it's no longer about two schools agreeing, it's about the Commissioner having the authority to designate when the game may be played, and that was adopted by our membership.

Q. There's been some buzz about division realignment. What are the possibilities that at some point could happen when we think of the Auburn Tigers and other schools when we think about that?
GREG SANKEY: Has not been an agenda item in the meeting. It is a conversation in most large press conferences in which I appear, and that's the extent of the conversation.

Q. Given the somewhat volatile state of cable television, I'm wondering if the conference has faced any specific challenges with the SEC Network, or if there are any hurdles ahead that you might have to clear?
GREG SANKEY: I think we've experienced over three years great success with the SEC Network. We're attentive to the change. I don't -- people use different adjectives, volatile, whatever it might be. I just look at the reality that change is happening around us, so we're completely attentive to that. We know that ESPN as well is attentive to that.

Since launch, what we've seen is international distribution opportunities as these new distribution methods are created. We've been positioned well by ESPN. So really, despite the change, there's a lot of good news, but we are still attentive to that change. I know that I watch a lot more on my phone and iPad, and I'm 53 years old. And it's clear that if I'm becoming accustomed to that, others are consuming media in a different way. And that's why it's important that we have those new opportunities.

Q. Sort of a follow-up to that question, in your projections, do you see your TV revenue stream flattening out, expanding? What do you see that as?
GREG SANKEY: Keep in mind that we have contracts that are long term that include specific revenue. So we have an understanding of what those include. We have seen and expected to see great progress on the revenue front where the network is created. And the lack of that 20, 50, 70 percent year-over-year increase is not related so much to the cable industry, but now we have a much more mature network. And so to my points earlier about those new distribution opportunities, those are important as is maintaining as many households as possible in the current environment.

So any flattening or normalizing of revenue is basically a standard outcome of what we do and that to which we become accustomed to over time. We have contractual and then some variable revenue, but it still continues to progress is the good news.

Q. Greg, have you ever seen the day maybe when you all in -- the conference have a uniform drug policy rather than each school having a policy and kind of bending it their way?
GREG SANKEY: We've gone through that discussion, Ron, three or four times in my almost 15 years here, in our schools, including us looking at developing what the framework of that plan may be. Our schools have not, in majority, supported adopting a policy at the conference level.

Part of my expectation is that will at some point be a conversation because we've had so much turnover in personnel that it's now asked with more frequency in meetings. And from a staff standpoint, we're prepared for that conversation. As I mentioned, having a student athlete conduct working group, that may be an agenda item we assign there.

I wouldn't predict when other than it will be another agenda item at some point is my anticipation. But keep in mind our schools make the determination. And hidden in my reference is the changing personnel, I think, probably prompt that discussion in the future.

Q. Commissioner, do you favor some kind of standardized format for injury reporting in football?
GREG SANKEY: I think that's probably the second time I've been asked, and that's just not been a conversation that we've ever had. I understand the basis for the question, but I've not had to take a position other than allowing what we do to continue. And I suspect that's the feeling of our member universities at this point as well.

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