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U.S. SENIOR OPEN CHAMPIONSHIP

July 27, 2004

Bruce Lietzke

Bellerive Country Club, St. Louis, Missouri

RAND JERRIS: It's a pleasure to welcome Bruce Lietzke. Bruce is our defending champion, having won the 2003 Open in Inverness Club in Toledo, Ohio, last year. Bruce is playing his third Senior Open this week. Maybe you could start us off with some comments about what it means to be defending champion.

BRUCE LIETZKE: It means it's in the sights of about 153 other guys that want to take home that trophy that I've had at my house for the last year. You know, you almost kind of feel that way showing up at a championship like this, and you can just tell that everybody that has showed up here this week had their sights on trying to take that trophy to their hometown and home golf course. A little bit of extra pressure.

It's a little bit different defending at a tournament where you're playing on a different golf course. A lot of times if you're defending on a Champions Tour event or a PGA TOUR event, most of the time you're going right back to the same golf course and you really do have the feeling that "This is my tournament, that's my golf course, and you're going to have to take it away from me."

This is a completely different golf course obviously from where we played in Toledo last year, but boy, you're going to have -- just from my initial -- this is the first day that I've played the golf course. I came in for media day four, five, six weeks ago, and I rode around the golf course and putted and chipped a little bit, I didn't actually play, and I also played it in '92 PGA.

My first thoughts of the golf course are that I'm very relieved -- I remember leaving in '92 thinking that this was the biggest -- I don't want to misuse this word, hookers' golf course. This is a hooking golf course, or at least I thought it was in 1992. Big sigh of relief really when I came in for the media day and saw some of the tee shots, and it continued today.

This golf course isn't going to favor anybody. I was certain that it was going to favor a guy that hooks the ball off the tee from my memories of 1992, and what I found out there today, there are a few tee shots that you have to move the ball right to left. There are a few tee shots where you have to move the ball left to right. There's lots of decision-making out there, and those are my favorite kind of golf courses. I've always hated golf courses where the architect really dictates every shot. He's demanding that you hit a certain shot.

You've got lots of choices out there on your iron shots. 3-woods off the tees, drivers off the tees, 2-irons off the tees. I came away today -- it seems to be my first impression. I hardly remember much of the '92 championship. What I came away with after my practice round today is I love this golf course, a true classic in the truest sense of the word, because it is an old-fashioned golf course. You don't have island greens. It's lengthy on a few certain holes, and then they give you a few real short par 4s where there will be some birdie opportunities.

I've just got a great feeling about this golf course, not necessarily from my game. I'm still pretty rusty, I've had a couple weeks off, but I'm coming away thinking this is really a classic golf course, and I think it'll be a great U.S. Senior Open venue, and I'm already -- when I was here for media day I threw a couple names out, Watson and Hale Irwin. At the time I forgot that Jay Haas was going to be playing, and I know Jay is kind of a local boy here, too, and I played with Tom Kite today, and Tom Kite moves the ball both ways. He draws the ball and fades the ball, plays both shots, the way this golf course demands on certain holes, and I would put Tom Kite up there among the Irwins and the Watsons.

Early in the week those are my favorites to contend on Sunday, and I don't put myself in there right now. I'm going to have to -- I'm going to work pretty hard on the tee shots here because there are some that really demand a hook. There's actually two par 3s on this golf course that you have to hook the ball when the pin is on the left side of the green, and that's going to be a real struggle for me.

It's going to be a great challenge, and I think I've got a chance to win, but I don't think this course favors me as much as it does the guys that move the ball both ways easily. I don't move it easily both ways.

Q. What happened? Was your memory bad, or did they change something here?

BRUCE LIETZKE: My memory had to be -- that's a good question. I know they've removed some trees. I'll tell you what I remember from '92. I thought I remembered 13 out of 14 tee shots, and not just an optional hook, but it demanded a hook. I swear, that's the way I remember the golf course. I remember I just barely made the cut, and I'm almost positive I shot 80-80 on the weekend, and I remember thinking I had to hook every tee shot during the day except for one.

I noticed they changed a couple of tee boxes, third hole, fourth hole, fifth hole, somewhere in there, we're playing a completely different tee box. I think they took out a total of 40 -- they took out maybe in the hundreds of trees, but several trees I think have been taken out along the left side of the tee boxes. Those are the tees that demanded to hit a hook. I remember trees down the left side of every tee box, and most of those are gone. I really think the golf course has changed to a certain degree, and what I also remembered is that the winners of the majors here before, the ones that I could remember, Gary Player won here, and boy, he is the classic guy that hooks the ball all the time, and Nick Price, and I've played a lot of golf with Nick Price, and Nick Price mostly loves to hook his tee shots, and he won his PGA here.

Those are just the memories, all those things, which to me made it the ultimate hookers' golf course, and now I'm coming away -- like I said, this is just a ball hitters' golf course. You've got to move the ball both ways, and that's going to make me uncomfortable on certain tee shots, and that's really my shortcoming. There's nothing wrong with the golf course, it's just the way I've decided to play my game. My game works on about 98 percent of the golf courses. This is one of the 2 percent, this, Augusta National, a few other places I've played that a hook really is the premium shot, and the rest of the time my fade works on just about every other golf course, but I'm going to have to work a little extra hard this week, but I'm looking forward to the challenge.

It is also -- not only does it demand those tough tee shots, but it does demand a lot of accurate iron shots. These greens are going to get really fast, they have quite a bit of slope in them, and you're also going to have to hit some real precise irons, and that does start playing into my game, and I'm hoping to have the same kind of putting week that I had at Inverness last year, too. I really like the way the golf course is set up now, and it'll probably dry out a little bit as the week goes on, and we'll see if it dries out like Shinnecock dried out. I'm hoping they bring the hoses out a little bit before they start turning brown.

Initially on my Tuesday practice round, the golf course was fair but real tough and much longer than -- I won't say much longer. Longer than Inverness played last year. I'm going to hit more drivers here than I did at Inverness. I'll hit more 3-woods here than I did at Inverness, too. Inverness was mostly a 3-wood and utility club. I think I only hit three drivers in Toledo, and I'll probably hit it looks like five, six drivers, four, five or six 3-woods and a couple of utility clubs, and the wind will help dictate that.

That's what I kind of like about this course is you don't just stand up on the tee box and grab a driver. You need to get your yardages and factor in the wind. It's going to be a thinking-man's golf course. That makes me go back to players that think their way around the golf course. If Jack Nicklaus was playing, I'd put him at the top of the list. To me, he was the greatest strategist in major championships. If I had to pick somebody right off the bat now, it would be Hale Irwin. Hale has a wonderful knack of playing to his strengths and developing a strategy for a golf course that can work under any opinions.

I really expect to see Hale. Hale has been a little bit quiet these last few weeks, and he doesn't like being out of the headlines too often. Hometown golf course, hometown hero, this is his chance to shine again, and I wouldn't be surprised to see him at the top or near the top by the end of the week. The golf course really fits his game just fine.

Q. What impact do the size of the greens have, how that will impact the tournament?

BRUCE LIETZKE: I don't know that -- the size of it doesn't factor too much into it in that you can stand on every green today, and I can see where every pin placement was going to be. So, you really dissect those huge greens, and sometimes they dissect into about four different locations or three or four, and then that's kind of the way you look at a green. You're still going to be missing some greens here. There are certain places you just -- most U.S. Open kind of courses, most of the time you'd rather be putting 20 feet uphill than six feet downhill, and so you divide these greens up, and I made some pretty elaborate notes today on the greens. I spent almost all my note-taking today on the greens, and I'll kind of polish that tomorrow.

You get a pretty good knack of where the USGA and really our Champions Tour officials like to set the pins up. You could see the pin placements today, and you really develop into mini-greens out there. Sometimes you've got like five different green locations on that one huge green. You're still going to be missing greens, and there's going to be a lot of chipping. If you miss the fairways, it's going to be hard -- they're going to give you a chance a lot of times to bounce the ball up in the fairway, if you get a decent kind of a rough lie, but more than likely, you're not going to be able to bounce up to the section of the green where the pin is going to be, so there will be some long-approach putting. If you're playing out of the fairway, you're not hitting to a 15,000 square foot green, you're really hitting it into that tiny location where the pin is, at least you'd better be. If you're going to shoot low scores, you'd better be shooting those iron shots to where the specific level that the pins are set up.

Q. How will the fact that you guys are experiencing some unseasonally cool weather here in St. Louis and you were probably preparing for something pretty hot in a lot of humidity, where does the fitness factor fit in?

BRUCE LIETZKE: I don't see much of a problem. Possibly if that hot humidity -- the real humid stuff had showed up, it might play a factor. This is a very, very flat golf course. I didn't detect any real major slopes out there. I don't think that's going to be too much of a factor. The players coming off the Champions Tour now, we also have a field of amateurs and club pros and just anybody. That's the great thing about this tournament. It is a true Open, so I can't speak for those guys that are either club pros that have only played five or six rounds of golf. Speaking for the guys that play the Champions Tour -- I played with Vinny Giles today, and Vinny is an amateur. He's almost 62 years old, and he walked easily today, and he's not used to playing a lot of tournament golf here. I don't think physically this is going to be a real demanding golf course. The mental toll I think takes more of a toll than the physical side. As long as the weather cooperates pretty good, I don't think physically it's going to be a real demanding golf course.

Q. You mentioned the previous winners here. How valid is it that you're going to get that flavor of what kind of a golf course it favors? Is it maybe beyond just that the top name on the board to go four or five names even to see if that pattern holds out? I remember Gene Sauers I think led going into the round on Sunday, Maggert was a factor, Faldo was a factor, Cook was a factor. In other words, if you go through a longer list, is that a more valid way than just the winner?

BRUCE LIETZKE: Yeah, I think it is, and I understand the point you're trying to make, and that's -- I think that's where guys that -- if you go back through the golf history, that's where the guys that have won majors on the PGA TOUR, that's how they continue to win is they -- and I do think they fall back on that strategy, and they have learned to think their way around a golf course, and I've always put Jack Nicklaus at the very top of that list, and Tiger has a wonderful way of managing his game, his mental game, on the golf course, too.

When you do throw in a mix of younger guys and physically they're in a real hot streak, and as you say, a Gene Sauers or Jeff Maggert get up or near the lead, Sunday has always fallen back into the guys that have the experience and seem to draw on that experience of winning a major championship, and in this case, Nick Price, I believe, he had already won a major before this one --

Q. No, this was his first one.

BRUCE LIETZKE: That's right, but the history shows that those guys -- that's why you see a guy on the Tour these days, Ernie Els, in there every week. Like I said, because Jack Nicklaus isn't playing this week, I think I put Hale Irwin at the top of the list now for developing a strategy and playing a golf course that is -- will play to his game, and he's proven it time and time again, not only in the majors but 39 or 40 Champions' event, and if it comes down to Sunday with some inexperienced players and Hale Irwin, you can bet on Hale Irwin to keep that mental toughness, when even though your physical game might be really sharp on Sunday is when that mental toughness wins championships. Tom Watson always had that in his bag, and that's what we always try to attain.

Having won this tournament last year, I can draw a little bit on that, but Hale Irwin has a lot more experience in these events than I do. It just makes them extra tough on Sundays. It kind of goes beyond the physical game, and it demands the guy who survives. I told you guys last year that I finished last year, and if you remember I was missing fairways and making great putts and up-and-downs and all that, and more than anything, I felt like a survivor, and that's what most U.S. Senior Opens and U.S. Opens -- Retief Goosen will tell you he felt like a survivor. He felt like the only guy to not get burned by that golf course, and probably Sunday afternoon that's what the winner of this event will tell you, that he survived a real tough test of golf, and that strategy and mental toughness is what's going to help that guy win this event on Sunday.

Q. There was talk last year about possibly not being able to defend with your daughter's graduation plans. How were you able to get that changed up?

BRUCE LIETZKE: Actually we did a pretty good thing. We substituted two vacations for that one. We were supposed to be on a cruise. We had signed up for a cruise this week, mainly because I had not known about this date change. We played in June last year, and I fully expected, and it was just -- actually it was on Tuesday or Wednesday of this tournament last year that somebody said, well, did you know that this tournament has been moved into late July, and we had already set up a cruise date.

As it turns out, we did our cruise in March, which was her spring break week, and then we decided, well, we still need a July vacation like we've always done -- Bill Rogers and my family, we've taken vacations for two or three years, so I'm coming off a two-week vacation, we were in the Bahamas for five or six days and then we were in the Cayman Islands. I've got a wonderful tan. You can't see my legs right now. My golf game is rusty. It felt pretty good today, but I'm coming off a two-week vacation, so we worked in the vacations, and I'm back to defend this championship, and I'm real happy to be here.

Q. I want to go back to the weather issue. I'm looking at the weather and they're talking about we may get some rain this weekend. Obviously, if it rains, it shortens this course, but if we get the really hot, humid St. Louis weather, it lengthens it. How do you fall on that? Do you want it to be -- do you prefer the -- I'm sorry, it goes the other way around. If it's hot, it shortens things for you. Do you prefer the hot weather and it shortens this course, or would you rather see the rain?

BRUCE LIETZKE: For my game, I would rather see the golf course firm and fast, especially the greens. Fairways, I don't really worry one way or the another if the fairways get hard and firm, but with the high, soft iron shots that I hit, I have a little more of an advantage trying to go into really hard greens than guys that hit the ball low. They have a real disadvantage if these greens get real firm and real fast, so that's the way I would hope the golf course plays.

If we do get some rain, I hope it's not heavy, heavy rain. If it softens the greens up, then everybody is throwing darts and stopping them on the greens, and it brings more players into the field. I'm hoping if we do get rain, it's not severe. The hot, humid stuff, I really don't think that's much of a factor, either. I live in Texas, and hot and humid is just fine for me, and again, for most of the Champions Tour players, we play all over the country.

Other than the guys that have cart issues that maybe Tom Purtzer has got a back that bothers him, then this could be a physically demanding week, but for most of the players, really all the afternoon rain showers do is disrupt your play, if there's lightning delays, and nobody likes that. If I had my preference, we'd have no rain, the golf course would firm up as the week goes on, and by Sunday afternoon, and I know that's what the USGA's plans are, by Sunday they want this golf course to play at its most difficult, firm, fast and fair -- let's keep that fair in there (laughter). I saw a little bit of Shinnecock, and let's keep that fair in there, and you'll have a lot of happy guys on Sunday afternoon.

Q. That last question was kind of touching on the length a little bit, but just comment on the length out there today. Just comment how much of a factor is that going to be with it being a Senior Open?

BRUCE LIETZKE: It favors guys that hit the ball a little extra long. I'm not hitting lots of drivers out there, a lot of times because it demands -- those hook tee shots, I can't hit a driver. I don't hook my driver at all, so a lot of those 3-woods I'm hitting, the other guys are going to be hitting drivers, the ones that do hook the ball. That's what I'm giving up this week. I'm giving up some distance on the tee to hit my 3-wood, which I hook, where a lot of guys will just be hitting their natural hooks out there.

But it is going to be a long golf course, and if it does soften up and the fairways don't give you much roll, then it's really going to be a long golf course. I still think that helps me -- if we start hitting long irons into all these greens, then that played into my hands of hitting a long, soft iron shot. That's also the way Hale Irwin plays, and it also plays into other people's hands, too. We can't control the weather so I don't worry too much about that.

Like I said, today my strategy was to try to find some pin placements out there, and I practiced putting to those, and then developing a strategy on if the pin is here, where do I want my iron shot to be. Whether you're hitting a 2-iron into a green or a 6-iron, there are places you can miss it and there are places you can't miss these greens, and that's what we're doing out there today and tomorrow is setting up those strategies. But you're right, it is the longest Senior course maybe ever. I don't think the Champions Tour has ever played an event this long, so it will be a test for the guys that the short hitters will have a little extra demand on their games.

Again, I think it's a real fair golf course for everybody out there.

Q. Is there a simple explanation for why your game holds up better off of an extended break than perhaps anybody else that has ever played the game?

BRUCE LIETZKE: Yeah, because I am kind of a one-trick pony. I have one golf swing and it's the only golf swing that I've used in 30 years. I have an emergency swing, an emergency hook swing, which is used only in emergencies. If I'm dead behind a tree and my only option is to hook, then I can manufacture a hook. But every other swing that I've made for the last 30 years has been exactly the same. It produces a fade. I haven't hooked on any other move. I don't change golf equipment or specifications. My irons and lofts and lies, the length of my driver and everything is exactly the same for the last 30 years, and it allows me to take two weeks off and lay on the beach in the Cayman Islands, and my first swing out here after a two-week break is exactly the same swing that I used at the Ford Senior Players Championship two weeks ago. Muscle memory is the term used by a lot of teachers, and I'm the poster boy for muscle memory because I haven't worked anything else into my golf swing. No changes in my grip or my setup or anything. I have one swing, and all I do every morning, I don't go out and practice on anything. All I do is warm up my golf muscles and warm up that 30-year-old golf swing that has not changed, at least has not changed intentionally. I don't look at video. You could go back and maybe get my swing from 30 years ago and do a side-by-side of today's swing, and it may have changed. There may be something different because I'm older, but nothing intentionally has changed, and my ball shapes the same way every day for the last 30 years, and it has allowed me to take my time off, not practice, and mostly it allows me to go back and recharge my mental batteries so that I'm ready to play another series of tournaments, and all I have to do is come to a golf course and play two practice rounds, and my golf swing by tomorrow afternoon will be exactly where it was two weeks ago for the Ford Senior Championship, and in this case, it'll be the same swing from 30 years ago at the Tucson Open.

It limits me, like I said, I'm a one-trick pony, but luckily, playing American golf, the high fade works. Target golf, most architects are building these target golf courses. The greens are surrounded by trouble, and that big high fade works great. If I had been born in Europe and trying to play the European Tour with my big high fade, I'd have never won a golf tournament. You play European golf on the ground for the most part with a low draw, and my high fade wouldn't work there, but it works great in American golf on just about every golf course I've ever played. I've been lucky, and I'm pretty proud that I've resisted all the temptations of a swing guru and going to Augusta year in and year out and thinking, boy, I'd love to have a chance to win here, and if I changed my swing a little bit, maybe I could hook it around the 13th hole and have a chance to go for it like these other guys, and I've fought those kind of demons all my early years. I started seeing results, and I thought, this swing works great just about year-round, and if it means there's a couple tournaments throughout the year that I'm going to struggle on but the rest of the year it's gravy, I'll stick with the gravy. It has allowed me to go home, put the clubs away, recharge the batteries and come back out and play competitive golf.

Q. You're also kind of the poster boy for the long putter. Earlier this year some pros were talking about they didn't think sort of anchor putting was fair. Can you talk about switching to that style, what it's done for you?

BRUCE LIETZKE: I switched in 1991. I wasn't the first guy to switch. Orville Moody on the Senior Tour was playing it for a while. I think I was the second guy on the PGA TOUR. I think Rocco Mediate went to one just before I did, but I went to one in 1991, not out of desperation but because I had always been a very mediocre -- I was average, I was never a bad putter, but I was average, and I always had to wait on those hot-putting weeks before I had a chance to win, and I started experimenting with it to see if all of a sudden I was Ben Crenshaw.

It was kind of a no-brainer method, and it isn't. You can still push the ball, pull the ball off-line. There are lots of ways to putt poorly, even I can't long putt, but I did start keeping my stats with a long putter, and I had kept my stats with putting before that, and giving up a little bit on the long-approaching putting, which is a little bit more difficult with a long putter, eventually my findings were I was a much better putter from 8 and 10 and 12 feet.

I was about the same short putting, inside four or five feet, and I was a little bit worse in lag putting, and overall my stats were I was almost a half a putt better each day with the long putter, and, boy, on Sunday afternoon, that's two shots in your pocket, and that's either worth money, and sometimes it's worth trophies. So, I just continued to work with it -- I say work with it. I don't practice putting any more than I practice my golf swing. I have kind of broken my rules -- my golf swing is exactly the same for the last period of years, but I have changed a little bit with the putter. I putted cross-hand my first 17 years on Tour, and then I putted with a long putter since then. I do a little bit of experimenting with the long putter and with putting in general, but it made me a little bit better. I'm still a consistent putter. I don't putt like Ben Crenshaw every week, and that's what I was hoping to do, but it has been a successful experiment, and I continue to enjoy it.

One of the benefits from it is I have noticed that it takes a shorter amount of time for my touch to develop, especially after a two-week break like I've had. If I come back putting conventionally, it would take me two, three, four days sometimes for my putting touch to come around conventionally, and with the long putter, it comes around within a day or two, pretty much alongside my golf swing. It has also helped benefit me -- it's allowed me to take me weeks off, and my putting touch comes around quicker after my layoffs, just like my golf swing, so it fits into my lifestyle quite nicely.

RAND JERRIS: Thank you very much for your time, and we wish you much success this week.

BRUCE LIETZKE: Thank you, guys. Appreciate it.

End of FastScripts.

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