Q. A little history. I remember you were one of the leaders in 1981 at Marion, I'm just interested, African American golfers all we hear now is Tiger Woods and yet there's only Tiger, if I'm thinking correctly on the regular tour. We have you, Jim Dent, Walter Morgan, what do you think has happened, you won three times on the regular tour, did anybody show any interest, these young kids, and why do you think there are more African Americans on the Senior Tour than the regular tour?
JIM THORPE: Back before I joined the Tour, there was eight, ten African American players, just to name a few, Charlie -- inaudible -- my brother, Chuck, played for a little while. You know we don't know. We have many, many programs where we introduce golf to inner city kids, and we have the First Tee program which is doing absolutely great. They just don't show the interest, man.
And to me, if the parents don't kind of force these kids and say, hey, we are getting in the car, going to the driving range to play golf, we are not going to do it. Golf is a very expensive game No. 1, and No. 2 I think kids have to find the venues. Growing up as a kid, my dad was a greenskeeper, so I grew up on the golf course it was easy for my brother and I, and I had sisters that pursued golf but not as a career.
But inner city kids do not have the access. Even the First Tee program I know they are building some golf courses, and I don't know how many they are doing, it's something I -- I don't pay that close attention to it. Bill Dicky has a wonderful program out in Phoenix, Arizona and I don't see anything happening with these programs. So I don't know what the answer is.
Q. Tiger tied Byron Nelson's record this weekend, I mean, you look at him, when he was coming on TOUR, did you think he was going to be this good and does it give you a special feeling of pride because he is at least part African American?
JIM THORPE: I don't think nobody -- I don't think nobody knew Tiger was going to be that good. But he's a different breed you know what I mean. He doesn't care about -- I don't think he cares about the money. Back in our days, we were dead broke. When left say Tucson going to Phoenix for the next tournament, we thumbed a ride where he jumps in his Lear jet and takes off.
We did Pro-Ams at 50 and 100 on Monday just to make sure we had expense money that week. He came around at a time where corporate America stepped in and put a lot of money into golf purses. Thanks to Arnold Palmer the rest of that crew, the purses have really grown and Tiger doesn't have to struggle the rest of the African American golfers had to struggle. In 1981 I was leading the U.S. Open, after the first round, I could not afford to buy breakfast the next day; my credit was maxed out. If they did not have food in the locker room, I would have been lost that day. Even the guy that caddied, he had to wait for the USGA to send me the check so I could give him some money. Tiger didn't have to go through those changes.
I finished fourth. David Graham played a beautiful round of golf.
I was dead broke. Two dollars would have been a hell of a playoff.
My first trip to Augusta the 1982 and the golf course just kicked my butt.
You know, I think the difference now, I have a 14-year-old daughter. She's involved in a golf program, we live on a golf course and I take her out to play. I set her up with a private lesson and I think that's what parents have to do to get more African Americans playing. I think we have some programs and I think we have some young kids today, some aged between 12, 15 years old, I think with the market -- I think we'll see. Then again, I don't think we'll never see three or four for some reason. I have no idea.
Why, what Tiger has done in the last, what is he, seven years on the Tour now, what he's done last seven years, I think he's brought a lot of people of all color and race, he has introduced to the game of golf. We still don't have it.
So I think the only young men that we have that's taken a shot at the regular PGA TOUR is Tim O'Neil. I haded pleasure of playing with Tim a couple of times. I think he's got the game but I don't know if he's got the heart. I think the difference with a guy like Tim O'Neil and a guy like myself is that when I come out as a young guy, I didn't have the game but I had tons of heart, you know what I mean. I wasn't afraid. I mean, Charlie and all of the other guys that came before I did, kind of smoothed the road a little bit.
So I never went through the changes that they went through. I never went to a golf course and felt that I wasn't wanted. I was the only African American playing at Shoal Creek when they had that big controversy, just like I told the press then, I'm here because I'm paying my bills, not because I want to find out who is a member here. That's kind of the way I look at it.
I can't -- personally I think that's one of the things that hurt Calvin Peete. Calvin Peete should have made a lot of money for endorsements. Three or four years he was the best player in the world. I think he won 12 times between '82 and '86. Calvin and I'll say this because he's a friend of mine, I think Calvin, he felt that there was still racists in the game of golf and he felt that he didn't not get credit for winning 11 or 12 times. Yeah, my question to Calvin is, did you get paid. That's the only thing that matters to me. Let me go finish my 72 holes or whatever we play and let my check show up and I'm happy. No one owes me nothing else. Calvin just looked at it different.
And I don't think Tiger Woods, I've seen some of his advertisements and the some of his quotes, "because of the color of my skin," he couldn't play here or there. I have some Jewish friends that couldn't play certain golf courses and I have some Italian friends in Buffalo that couldn't play certain courses. It's universal. Just go out there and play if you have the opportunity and let bygones be bygones. I personally don't care if people like me. I'm not there for people to like me. I'm going to try to conduct myself as a man and my business -- just go play golf and that's basically all I want to do. Hell, I've got sisters and brothers that don't like me. (Laughter.) That is something I never got really involved in, you know what I mean, what people think about me.
Some guys asked me, I think last week in Texas, I might have shot 65 in the first round, he asked me, how did I want to be remembered. Well, I could care less. Hell, I'm dead and gone. You could say Thorpe was a real asshole; that don't bother me. I'm not going to jump out of the ground and come back and get him. I don't bother about that man. Last week or last year, 50 years ago, it was 50 years ago. The only thing that matters is the present and tomorrow. I can't change nothing.
Q. You were saying earlier in the week how tough a competitor like Tom Watson is, is there a danger you might respect him too much?
JIM THORPE: The thing about it, Tom has won so many golf tournaments, God almighty. You know he says he's putting bad and he's 10-under par.
You know what, you know Tom Watson and Hale Irwin -- and I think Hale Irwin is probably as tough a competitor as Tom Watson. I don't think we respect him too much but we know what he can do. He knows we are going to go out and play good golf to try to kick his butt. We know if we slip he's going to kick our butt.
My thing is, going out there, Tom hits a bad shot and he walks off, he's smiling, like nothing has happened. Most of us hit a bad shot, we're trying to bury the club about 10 feet under the ground or something like that and Tom is just going about his work.
Hell, he's going to be tough. I definitely think -- everybody here, I think I'm 14, that's why I know I have to go out and continue to make birdies. Tomorrow I'm playing with Tom and Tom, Tom Jenkins and Tom Watson. I won't get caught up too much in their game. So hopefully I can go out and drive the ball long and straight and keep it someplace on the green. And to me they will put a little more pressure on them. And when you play guys like Watson and Irwin, I don't think you can put pressure on them. I just think they are going to be there until it's all over. Because two years ago in the PGA, at Ridge, I would have beat anybody else on Sunday. The round of golf I played on Sunday I would have beat anybody else on Sunday but Tom Watson. He's talking all week how bad he's putting and he's just knocking in putts. I know he's going to be there at the end. If he wins, I'll shake his hand and say well done.
End of FastScripts.
