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WYNDHAM CHAMPIONSHIP


August 15, 2014


Dow Finsterwald

Bob Goalby


GREENSBORO, NORTH CAROLINA

ROB GOODMAN:  Welcome everybody.  Thank you for coming in to speak to two of our legends here in celebration of the 75th anniversary of the Wyndham Championship.
Of course, you know Bob Goalby, 1958 Champion, Dow Finsterwald on the right, 1959 champion.
Dow, if you would start us off and what it's like to be here this weekend and being a part of this anniversary?
DOW FINSTERWALD:  Certainly brings back a lot of fond memories.  Memories of a tough day of play when I did win in '59.  I think my final round was 77 which was 37 degrees higher than what the temperature was.  It was like 40 degrees and raining.
BOB GOALBY:  And the wind blowing.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  I never looked it up but 77 may be the highest score posted in the last round for a person to win a tournament, whether that's good or bad.
Anyway, the W was there and it was tough playing and I had played with Bob the year before the last round and so we -- our paths crossed quite a bit and, you know, we've had some guys on the Champions Tour that has really contributed greatly to its success but Bob has served as the MC in the Pro-Am draws in any tournament he was at, he did that for the committee, and I still kid him about it.
If a guy won ten tournaments when he introduces them they won 15 (laughter).  He did everything within a certain limit to make every player look better.
He was so complimentary to the guys that -- and it made the amateurs who drew that particular player feel as though they had gotten -- will get a treat the play with them, and I can't think of any one player that has done more for the Champions Tour than Bob Goalby, and I thank you and I know the players do.
BOB GOALBY:  Thank you.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  To be included today or this week in the 75th anniversary is quite a thrill and I think it was the 50th we celebrated and I still have the little crystal commemorating that gathering 25 years ago.
I think we must have been at Forest Hills at that time or Forest Oaks?  But, anyway, it was quite enjoyable.  You guys in Greensboro know how to observe meaningful anniversaries, for which I thank you.
ROB GOODMAN:  Bob, how has it been for you being back?  You've been a busy guy.
BOB GOALBY:  I'm very pleased to be back at my first win in 1958 and I won $2,000.  I still got most of it (laughter).  No, I'm kidding.  I wish that.
But, anyway, we didn't play for a lot of money in the '50s.  We had a good time and played golf every day.  We had the green grass on our feet and sun in our hair.
We were playing our hobby, it was our hobby.  It was always a lot of to do.  Of course to come back here, this is a great course here.  We always loved to play here at Sedgefield.  I won at Starmount.
Dow and I started played the last 36 holes together the year I won.  We played 36 holes on Sunday because we were rained out.  There were five guys tied for 2nd, Dow was one of them.  One stroke back was Sneed and January and Art Wall and Dow Finsterwald.

I can't think of the 4th.  I didn't spit it out.  I was one stroke ahead of although guys.  It was a good feeling.  At the presentation I never had met Sam Sneed.  He hadn't played all winter and this was his first tournament.  He came down from the Greenbrier, White Sulphur Springs, West Virginia, and at the presentation he was still there even though he finished 2nd and I was kind of in the background and I heard him say, "Who the hell is Goalby?"  (Laughter).  I put my hand up and I said, "I am, Mr. Sneed."
I was kind of in the back row, little kid in the school room.  I was kind of overwhelmed but won the tournament and fortunately I did finish birdie birdie.  It was a good finish to win.
Always a good taste to not back in some way.  It's better if you can just win it yourself.  But we had great winners here.  Sneed won 8 times.  I thought Palmer had won but Dow told me -- Dow was Arnold's best friend since college.  He told me he hadn't won but Arnold played quite a bit here and always liked it here.
I'm surprised he hadn't won because he's a great player and good guy.  We were very fortunate, Dow and myself got to play with Nelson and Sarazen, Sneed and Middlecoff, Demaret and Burke and Wall and Ford and, of course, Palmer and Nicklaus and Player and Casper.
Casper, probably the most -- he won here twice in '62 and '68.  He's probably the most underrated player that ever played the game.  He won 51 times on the Tour and ten times on the Senior Tour and he was a great champion.
He knew how to -- he knew how to play golf.  He didn't look like a superstar playing when you played with him but he could play golf.  He knew his game and he knew his limitations and he knew how to play.
He played par-5s usually short of the bunker and chipped on.  A good bunker play and good wedge and putter player.  He was a true champion.  I like Billy Casper's golf game.  We were very lucky -- you people have good champions at this course, George Archer won here twice.  He's a good player.  He's gone now.
Anyway, it's a pleasure to be back here and Dow mentioned the Seniors Tour.  We fortunately got another in 1980, we got another chance to prove -- Billy Casper said one time the best thing about the Senior Tour, now the Champions Tour, but he said we have a chance to prove to the public we're a little better people the second time around than we were the first time because you know we're all young, gung-ho, trying to make a buck and maybe not as friendly as we should have been but a little later in life you get a little more mellow and we enjoyed it a little more and we had a second chance and everybody worked very hard to make the Senior Tour work.  They really did.
One year Orlando -- we only started with 50 players in the field.  Now they have 78 but we had 50 players and 49 of the 50 were at the party on Thursday night and that's sort of unbelievable, but all the guys had a feeling a little bit they had to do their share to make this work because we had -- we played two Pro-Ams in the Seniors and we had to kind of be a little nicer than when we were younger playing.
We always thought that the fact that we played two Pro-Ams and treated the guys a little better than we did on the regular Tour that it helped our Senior Tour get going and I know now they say that they got a new program where everybody is nice to all the people and I keep -- I kind of giggle to myself I said hell, we did that 35 years ago or you guys wouldn't even have a chance to be playing.  I didn't say that publicly.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  Yes, you did.
ROB GOODMAN:  For those of you that may not know as much about the history of this event, in its early days it was played here and at Starmount Forest Country Club.
In fact, sometimes it was two rounds here and two rounds here.  Questions for anyone, either of these guys?

Q.  Bob, you're talking about the Senior Tour and then I just like to get your thoughts on they mentioned having a Ryder Cup for the Senior players.  You're a former Ryder Cup guy.  What would you think about that?
BOB GOALBY:  I think it's kind of nice, any extra event that you can interest people in in golf it's good for the game of golf and I think you still got -- naturally, Arnold is not capable of being on that team anymore but it would have been nice to have a few years back with Nicklaus and Player and Trevino and Palmer playing.
We got a new set of stars playing now and you're going to have a new set of stars 20 years from now.  I don't see anything wrong with it.  I thought that maybe I mentioned to Dow last night, I thought maybe the Ryder Cup team wouldn't have been too far out of line if they would have invited a couple Seniors from each side, the -- right now because you know we only have four matches out there.
People are all jammed on those four players and you really can't spread the gallery out if you had four more players on each team -- you could spread the gallery out.
Let's take Arnold in his prime as a Senior.  He would have taken as many people as Tiger took to watch or maybe more and probably more.  I didn't mean that he wouldn't have people but he would have been a big draw.
So I would think that the Senior Ryder Cup -- I don't think it will be called Ryder Cup but could be called Vice-President Cup or some kind of thing laughter.
But our -- Senior Cup, it could be called that.  I think it would work.  Just promote golf a little more and golf has been kind of down.
We need some kickers, whatever kind of kicker.  Most people were pessimistic about the Senior Tour but some of us, including Dow and myself we thought it was going to work and as it turned out, it's still going after 35 years and quite a bit stronger and because there's always those superstars.
We were very lucky when we started the Seniors that we had Sneed and Boros and Bolt as our catalyst at the start and then Palmer came along about a year and a half later and that was a big, big boost.
At first Arnie could have joined us.  He was trying to play the other Tour your which I don't blame him.  That's where his game was in his mind.
But when he joined, the big boost, then we had Trevino -- Chi Chi and Player, two or three years later and then we had a kick in with Trevino and Nicklaus.
We were -- here we are struggling business just getting started and we got a shot at starting every couple, three years.  That kind of got us over the hump.
We had Hale Irwin and Watson.  But the guys I just mentioned were a little bigger personalities like Chi Chi.  He was good for the Senior Tour.  He had a great personality.  He loved it and so was Gary.  They were gung-ho about the Seniors and they kind of made it work.  They weren't against it.
They didn't say -- like Jack was a little bit dubious at first.  He said, "I beat all those guys once why do I want to do it again?"  He ended up playing and won 8 Majors on the Seniors.  He got enjoying the game.
Jack was going to quit the game I heard him say one time when he was 30 and he was still playing in his 60s, you know, so you can't quit the game.  If you love the game you're going to keep playing and you assume you're going to quit playing when you can't play as well but we all keep trying and trying and trying I guess until we die, we looking for some.

Q.  Since y'all been back, have you had a chance to go by Starmount and look around?
DOW FINSTERWALD:  I have not.  Have you, Bob?
BOB GOALBY:  I'm sorry, I didn't hear that.
ROB GOODMAN:  Have you had a chance to go by Starmount to look around?
BOB GOALBY:  No, I didn't go back to Starmount.  That's where I won that year.  I didn't go back.  The courses were not in as great a shape as they are now.  We played in March.
The bermuda grass was dormant and wasn't much, they didn't have fertilizer and know how and the maintenance and the money that most courses around the United States, not just Greensboro but this was a tough place to play in March because the lies were kind of mucky and I remember on the 18th hole which 18th hole now which I think it was our 9th hole in those days, you couldn't hardly get the ball airborne off that down slope in the fairway to get it up and get on the green.
The ball out of the mud kind of shot forward and halfway up the bank and you were just trying to make a 5 someway.  Now I saw a guy today almost drive it in the creek down there, about 350 yards away.
It's amazing how good the kids are today.  I marvel every time I watch them play.  They're really good.  Much better than before.  Rightly so.  We got bigger, taller, better athletes playing golf.

Q.  Do you wish you had the equipment they have now?
BOB GOALBY:  I got their equipment and it doesn't help me (laughter).  But you're probably right.  The equipment is a little better and it does help a lot of the young players, the guys that can get the clubhead speed, the new shafts and the balls, they do go a long way.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  Speaking of equipment, there is a strong sentiment out there that the ball should be slowed down where it would not go as far and maybe have two sets of rules as far as the permissible equipment.
To me, one of the great things is that we all play the same game, play the same rules and the same equipment.  When you start having two sets of rules you're playing two different games and one of the nice things about golf is maybe not in terms of golf but your everyday play, you have handicaps.  That is a means of equalizing people's ability and still being able to compete with other players.
That's a lot of the fun in golf for me, anyway, is the competition even if you just playing for two dollars.  When I first started playing my father said, "You always play for something, even if it's a dime."
That competitive aspect of golf I think is very important and I, for one, would hate to see two sets of rules regarding the equipment.
Another thing, we don't talk about how much bigger -- and Bob is totally right, the guys are bigger, they're stronger and they have had better instruction from the outset with the videos and the different teaching aides that are out there for the instructors to utilize when they get a young pupil, advances them much faster than we were able to do when we were getting into the game.
It's more sophisticated and the results, I think, are partially because of this ability of our teachers to help young players.

Q.  Bob, I had a question I know you've answered this before but how did Jay get to Wake, Jay Haas and then the Haas line just kept going with Jerry and then Bill?
BOB GOALBY:  I brought Jay up here when he was a junior in high school to the GGO.  We went over and talked to Jesse, I had known Jesse Haddock at the time and Jay was a good player, junior player.  He won the National PV when he was 8 and won the high school tournaments around wherever he played.  He didn't play too many national tournaments as a kid because he didn't have the money.  He was a good player.  I knew he was going to be a good player.
He had a pause at the top of his swing and anybody that has a pause at the top of the swing is normally a good player.  If you see a young kid with a little pause, it doesn't hurry the swing and try to hit it too hard.  The distance will come as you get a little stronger and better.
I took him over, he was a little skinny kid.  I took him over to meet Jesse over at Wake Forest and I was telling Jesse he could play pretty good and I know Jesse looked at this little skinny kid and said, "Goddam, here is one another one of those doting fathers"  (laughter).
I wasn't his father, but his uncle thinks the kid could play.  Jay was a good player there at Wake.  His brother went there, Jerry, and then Bill went there.  So, that's how the first connection was, I brought him up there.
That same weekend then we went down to the Masters and I played early on Sunday and we got down there late and he was with me and went out to play a fast 18 and after the first hole I said, "Come on Jay, you can play on my bag".
It was Sunday evening and nobody was out there.  Little different today.  You couldn't do this.  He played the rest of the way with me and we got down to No. 12, the par 3 and he put it about three feet and made a deuce.
I said I figured he'd be good enough player to play there some day.  Some day you're going to wish you had that 2 (laughter).
He had a chance to win a few years later and put in it water.  I don't know why I told you that story.  That's how he got up here that weekend.  I took him over to meet Jesse.

Q.  How old was he then, Bob?
BOB GOALBY:  He was a junior in high school, 16, I guess.

Q.  Either of you or both you can answer this question, you said the players today are bigger and they're stronger but are they more likely to breakdown and do you think -- both of you had long careers, did you guys ever have any physical ailments that hindered your playing, back issues, specifically, or anything like that?
DOW FINSTERWALD:  I had some -- I've had both shoulders, rotator cuff, but that was after I really quit playing.  I still have some aches and pains but I kind of liken to it going even down the road.
If you go down the road long enough you're going to hit some bumps and you better be ready to face them and do the best you can as far as correcting them.
But the workouts, the trailers they have to try and stay in shape -- maybe as hard as they hit it, maybe those old bones and muscles won't take it.  I'm not qualified to comment on that but it's tough out there, guys and it's tougher.
The quality of play is so much deeper.  I would say that Hogan and Nelson and Sneed, Palmer, Player, those guys are winners and champions.  If they were to play today, all of them at the same time and at their best, no one of them would win as many tournaments as they did.  They came along in segments.  They are winners.
But they didn't have to beat as many highly competent players in their day as those guys have to do today.

Q.  My question is for both of you, do you recall there being any African-American caddies who were playing -- that caddied during this tournament or any other tournaments that you participated in and of those, did any of them go on to play in the Senior Tour because the folks from Rocksboro are always talking about Jim Thorpe and I was just curious if there were other people that you may remember or recall.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  I don't know how many of them were caddies but, of course, Charlie Sifford was a wonderful black player, Ted Rhodes, I don't believe he had quite the success but he was a fine player.  Calvin Peete, very fine player and, of course, Tiger.
The other sports seem to attract the black athlete more than golf does.  Why?  I have no idea, whether accessibility to the sport at an early age was a factor, availability of places to play.
There's a lot of factors but they seem to have gravitated to other sports and done marvelously well in the other sports field.
BOB GOALBY:  I don't see any reason that we don't -- I don't see why we don't have a few more blacks but the fact they don't caddy anymore, that's where most of them learned how to play golf.  That's where I learned how to play golf as a caddy and I watched you play a 12 handicapper and watch him play a scratch and I would mimic the scratch rather than the 12.
That's what the blacks did when they were learning to play golf, they learned by just watching.  You can learn to play golf by watching.  You don't have to just completely get a bunch of lessons because lot of guys that were good players never had a lesson in their life but the black player, they just don't have the opportunity I don't think today because if someone lives in the city, the golf courses are way out.
How are they going to get in and equipment is hard to get even though it used to be a little cheaper than it is now but it's difficult for them to get a start.
Most of them caddy other than Tiger, he's the one -- when Dow and I were in our prime playing we had 8, 10 blacks playing that were scratching out a living.  None of us made a big living but they could get by and they could make a living.  They were good players.
But now the last ten years we only had one player in Tiger, really and it's kind of unusual that there's no reason that the blacks aren't as good a golfer as the white.
We see them, better athletes in the other sports.  I still think somehow one of theses days we're going to see a group of them get back out there like used to be with Elder and Sifford.
Sifford was a unique individual.  He had a little more drive, little more fire than some of the guys that played, the black players and he was determined he was going to get there one way or the other and win money and win tournaments.  He was a determined guy.  I was always impressed with his attitude playing golf.  He wanted to win and he wanted to get the job done.
He had a hard time at first.  I know that.  Dow can verify that.  He didn't get to go here and couldn't play there.  They had a Caucasian rule up in the PGA until '60, they couldn't join the PGA and so that held them back a little bit, too.
But since then they've been welcomed with open arms and anybody can play or get there.  Same as Cliff Roberts always said at the Masters, if one of them qualified, they would be there.  When they qualified they did play there, you know.
Sifford was the first black golfer to play at Augusta.  He qualified.  They changed the rules a couple times at the Masters, if you won a tournament you got in and for awhile if you won a tournament you didn't get in and then they went back to if you won a tournament you get in.
Now, no matter who wins a tournament gets in.  PGA tournament, that is in America.  Don't necessarily control the world.  But lot of the foreigners were always invited to the Masters.
They were good to the foreign player.  If he could you play a little bit they could get an invite to the Masters.  Sometime almost easier than a player from America.  But it's always been a great tournament, the Masters.  They don't really discriminate against the blacks.  They really didn't.  The guy qualified, he got in.  But I don't know why we didn't have more blacks other than the fact they don't caddy anymore.
ROB GOODMAN:  You brought up Charlie Sifford.  In 1961 Charlie Sifford played here and was the first African-American in the Old South to play a Tour event in the Old South.
Your comments about his drive and his determination, did you see that then in his willingness to come here and play in 1961?
BOB GOALBY:  I saw it all the time and from the time I met him, the first time I played with him.  He was a firery guy.  He wanted to get the job done and he did a good job doing it without the most beautiful golf swing.
Lot of us didn't have beautiful golf swings but he got the job done and Charlie didn't have a great looking golf swing but he manufactured a way to play just like Arnold Palmer did.  He played with a shut blade at the top and blocked with his left elbow.
Arnold had something in his belly that made him a champion and so did Charlie.  Charlie didn't get a real chance to play until he was in his 30s toward 35, 40 when he got tournament a chance to play.  He missed his real prime.
ROB GOODMAN:  Other questions.

Q.  Tiger Woods obviously has had some issues with his back and his swing.  You two were coaching him, what advice would you give him?
DOW FINSTERWALD:  If we were coaching him what advice?  I think he's done just what he needed to do by withdrawing from golf for the rest of this fall probably.  The guy has -- he's 38 or so.  Well, Jack won when he was 46.
So, in theory he has, you know, eight more years, somewhere in that area where he can really come back in.  But by going out and playing these next four months or five months he might injure himself enough that he might never be able to come back.
By taking a rest at this point, I think was a very, very wise decision on his part and it will bear fruit for him.

Q.  What can you tell us about Doug Ford 1954 GGO champion?  You mentioned Dough Ford earlier.  Do you remember playing with him?
BOB GOALBY:  Do I remember playing with him?  I played hundreds of times with him.  I traveled with him, roomed with him, ate with him.  He was a good friend of mine and tough player.  Tough guy.  Grew up in New York and pushy guy.
He got the job done.  He knew how to play golf.  He didn't play slow, he played too fast, almost.

Q.  Aways flashy at all?  Did he have like --
BOB GOALBY:  Doug Sanders.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  Don't confuse those two (laughter).  Please don't tell anybody you confused those two.
BOB GOALBY:  They didn't get along, Doug Sanders and Ford.  They had a few battles.  That's why he said don't get them confused.
Doug Ford was a great competitor.  I thought he was the best competitor I ever played with.  He never -- I never saw him leave a putt from here to the edge of the table there short.  I don't care whether it was for a nickel or dime or a hundred dollars or for the Masters.  He always gave it a good pop and a good charge.  He had a set of balls, I can tell you that (laughter).
DOW FINSTERWALD:  Golf balls.
BOB GOALBY:  Yes.  Doug Sanders was a good player.  Won plenty of tournaments on the Tour.  He won here.  He's been his own worse enemy most of the time.  He could have won the British Open there.
He had a putt about this along (indicating) to beat Nicklaus and start clowning around, lining it up, plumb bobbing it and grabbed the club by the head and acted like he was going to putt it.
Turned around and smiled at the gallery.  Damn if he didn't miss it.  He was like clowning.  He thought he had won the tournament but he didn't finish the tournament.  He had to make this (indicating).  He start saying it was a 4-footer.  It was about an 18-incher because he tried to defend himself.
Felt sorry for Doug because he was a good player.  He was the straightest player I ever saw.  He could play golf.  He had to play on certain type of golf courses.  Like the Masters wasn't his type course where you had to hit the ball a little higher and come in with a higher trajectory.  He was good on Florida courses and in the wind he was a really good player.

Q.  I had a question for Dow but I want to know more about the battles between those two Dougs you said didn't like each other.
BOB GOALBY:  I already said that.

Q.  I want to know more about that.
BOB GOALBY:  That's just -- personalities.  Just personalities.  Ford never backed off anybody.  He was wrong sometimes.  I don't say because he was my friend he was right but he was a good guy, too.  He was a square shooter, honest.  He played hard but they just didn't clash.  The two of them argue sometimes.  That's all.

Q.  My question was for Dow, talking about Tiger being 38 and taking the rest of year off is the best thing he can do.
Is 38 now different than 38 when you guys were playing?  Is 38 maybe more like 50 when you were playing given how much these guys practice, how they're playing year-round and the way they workout?
DOW FINSTERWALD:  The workout is definitely different.  Today's player as far as hitting the trailer but guys in our era, they hit a lot of golf balls.  They worked at it hard but -- the four minute mile, it went by the way and everybody ran past that after it was first there.
I think the question was is this a good thing for him?  I can't see how he can go forward.  He's really on the right track.  He should, anyway have all the confidence in the world that he can still play but he's got to be healthy and I think Watson said that prior to Tiger taking the time off said I really would like to have Tiger on the Ryder Cup team if he's healthy.
That's a tough thing to go over there, 12 man team, one guy isn't sure that he can -- you got five rounds in three days to play.  That limited it.  I think Kuchar is playing here but he withdrew last week because of an injury.
I don't think Watson could take a couple guys over there that weren't at least at the time of selection healthy and as far as the Ryder Cup, Tiger actually helped Tom so he didn't have to make a decision.
I think his decision was, I don't want to say selfish but he was concerned about being -- getting well and being ready to compete at the level he had before.
But another factor going tougher for him the number, the depth of the good players he's got to beat now as opposed to how many.  There were other good players that Tiger beat, no question, but I don't think there was the depth that there is now.
BOB GOALBY:  Can I butt in there a minute?  I'm sorry.  You asked about why the guy was through at 38 years ago.  No. 1 is the money.  30th place was a hundred dollars.  Now, 80th place is 12,000.  So a guy could hang on quite a bit longer.  You could finish 80th every week now and make 400,000.
Well, you know, you couldn't make but a hundred dollars in 30th place.  If you were average in 40th place, which still isn't too bad of playing in the Tour, you wouldn't be able to hang around.  You would have to quit and get a job or do something else. 

That's one of the reasons that the guys retire a little earlier years ago and also they didn't exercise and stretch like they do today.  I think stretching is the most important thing.
Most guys that take a three-quarter swing as you get older, I'm down to almost a half.  The guy that is stretching and keeps his swing back up there and works at it religiously like they do now and got doctors that know how to do it and actually what to do -- in our day it was something even you wanted to be sunken chest and didn't want any muscle so you could turn a little bit so there wasn't any weightlifting or anything like that.
But you also ask about Tiger.  My quick comment is what do I do with Tiger?  First of all, I got to get healthy as Dow said but secondly get rid of the gurus he's got and go back to playing golf as an amateur when he won three national amateurs.
He drove the ball straight as a string every time down long creeks and out of bounds and marshes and woods and now he can't drive it in a field because he's thinking about what he's doing.
He had a pretty natural swing and he had a relaxation to the finish.  Now he's kind of hanging on and guiding and screwing himself into position where there's tension there.
I think that if he just got back to swinging like Tiger was pretty loose, easy swinger and free -- and I think that's another reason his back might be giving him a little trouble, he's always a little tense.
He's working so hard on something different than is natural.  That's just from an observation, no hanging around, just hanging around golf for 75 years.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  Just quick add to that, the other thing at 38, 40, 41, lot of them are still wanting to be ready to play on the Champions Tour in a few years.  So they got something to look forward to and keep working.  So I think that's a motivating factor for a lot of them to keep moving.

Q.  Question for both of you, who is not in the World Golf Hall of Fame who should be?
BOB GOALBY:  You know, I'd have to kind of stop and think about it.  I know there's a couple that won two Majors and 16, 17 tournaments and a couple of the older guys that aren't in yet but I'm sure they're going to put them in after this last round of changing the point system and how they're going to get in and what you have to do.
I think it will be more equitable in the future.  There's a couple.  I can't spit a name out right now because I'd almost have to see the list.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  I'd be in the same position as Bob.  I would want to see the list of who are already there and those that aren't.  I'm sure there are some that are definitely going to qualify.  You might say a sure thing.  How soon --
Q.Is it fair to say that the pro golfers of your generation socialized more at night than they do now?
BOB GOALBY:  I think they probably did, mostly the fact we didn't have as many corporate outings, wasn't any television commitments and wasn't big contracts.  You didn't have to do a lot of things on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday and we got together for practice rounds earlier in the week and we socialized a little bit more inner socialized.
I don't think anymore necessarily than the general public.  They probably do more of more of it than we did.  There's more interest in golf through television and television has been a big thing for the purses and for the pensions for the guys.
Without television we'd still be playing for 15,000 a week like we were years ago but television money and the exposure really made a difference to the players and also it smartened players up to be a little nicer to the sponsors and people and fans.  They learned that's where they could make some money and that made the game tick and made their pocketbook bigger.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  As far as socializing, but economics was the thing that directed more socialability in that you might share rooms with guys, you share automobiles from one tournament to another and friendships were developed through that sort of thing and it's a matter of economics and so to share those things.
You'd start in L.A. and drive to the Masters but the schedule was made such that you would go like from L.A. to Pebble Beach, to San Diego, Phoenix, Tucson, just through South of the United States and Florida, and finish the Tour at Wilmington, North Carolina and go to Augusta.  And Greensboro was in that rotation at one point but then later was played the week after the Masters.
The schedule itself was conducive to the automobile and not every guy had their own jet then (laughter) or had access to it.  That was a factor.

Q.  Are you guys blown away by the prize money?
Bob, you talked about what 30th place was a hundred bucks.  The purse out here roughly was 70 million when Tiger turned pro and now it's I believe over 280 million.  What are your thoughts about the prize money?
BOB GOALBY:  I'm kind of blown away with it.  I'm a little embarrassed almost for the players sometimes to see them make as much as they do with the country in trouble, people out of work and so forth.
But it's great for golf that those guys can make that kind of money but I think all sports have been blown out of proportion with the salaries of the baseball, basketball players and football players are getting.  Not all of them are getting that.  It's the superstars getting the big money.
But yeah, I'm a little surprised the amount of money.  1958 I know we played for 975,000 for 44 tournaments and that's total.  That was everything.  Now they're playing like close to 300 million.
First of all, you got to give the PGA TOUR credit for pushing and getting that kind money from the sponsors.  I can't imagine they could ever have done that but they've done that.  Beman kind of started it and Finchem has pushed it to the top unbelievably.
I was against Deane getting the job myself.  I didn't think he was the man for the job.  He did a great job for us and Finchem took it from there and I don't know if he's done a better job but he's done as good a job and I would think almost a little better job.
Of course, it's in different times and, of course, television helped that.  Television money has been great for the guys with their pension.  Probably golf has the best pension in sports, those players that were lucky enough to get it.
We kind of missed it on both ends, Seniors and juniors.  We have no gripes.  We got to play golf everyday.  I could always beat five dollars from Dow.
DOW FINSTERWALD:  Beat me for five dollars.  Other sports, you get a pitcher might throw his arm out the next game and got a ten year contract for 150 million.  Just doesn't make sense.  But it's a big eye.  They're selling a lot of baseball.  Football, how many nights a week they scheduled to start playing on NFL?  Start on Thursday and go every day but Saturday.  It's out there.  People want to see it and they'll pay to see it.
ROB GOODMAN:  All right, guys.  Thank you very much.  We've got to get these gentlemen up to the next appointment.  1958 and '59 champions, thanks for being here.

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