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February 1, 2017

Urban Meyer

Columbus, Ohio

URBAN MEYER: Early entry by players, the mid-semester enrollees has kind of changed the landscape, also, of signing date, the so-called 11th hour, and signing date decisions. Our class has been in place for quite a while, even Munford, Thayer signed today, but he's been committed for a few days. A very good class, a class that someone was asking me what do you look for. That changes every year. It's a slotted -- it would be kind of intriguing some day to show you what the war room looks like, I guess the so-called war room we call it, but a whole side of the wall is devoted to recruiting. Malik Hooker walks out, you'd better put someone back in, and you don't have to be overly intelligent to figure out the guy you slide in that slot is not good enough, your team is not quite good enough.

That's what we did, and I'm very pleased. Two years in a row we've lost three -- 60 percent of our -- six out of eight secondary players early entry into the NFL Draft, and that's unusual. As a matter of fact, I don't recall ever hearing that before with Tyvis, Mondale, and Eli leaving the year before, and this year Malik, Marshon and Gareon stepping away from one of the best pass defenses in the country. And then you replaced them with guys that we're really excited about, and they're here, and that's Jeffrey Okudah, Shaun Wade and Marcus Williamson. And they're already here training and working out. Very good young players. You also have Isaiah Pryor that's going to compete at the safety spot, as well. I'm not going to go through each guy. I'll let you ask the questions. But very pleased.

One guy I do want to point out is a guy named Shaun Wade that committed to us, I believe, on the National Championship day. I didn't know him. I know his school very well, and traditionally players in that area will change schools about seven times to their commitments, et cetera. Randy and Gwen, his mom and dad, we've become extremely close throughout the process, and I can't be more proud that he stuck with his commitment with a lot of pressure in that part of the country and to hang in there.

The other guy is Wyatt Davis and I didn't realize until recently that USC's head coach lives in the same neighborhood. I was like, oh, my gosh. And I already used up my visit out there, so I made Studs go out there on Friday and sit from sun-up until sundown and make sure no one goes by that house.

But just unique stories out there, and Wyatt was -- even after some media badgering and some other stuff was able to hang in there, and that's a credit to our coaching staff, relationships, but it's also a credit to this incredible University and even more importantly the program within this University, and that's what I love to hear. When Wyatt at Baron Browning told me he picked Ohio State University, it's because of what this University could do for him once he's done playing football. And at the end of the day, that's obviously very, very important, something that we take very personal around here.

With that said, I'll answer any questions.

Q. You guys have recruited at a high level since you've been here, so this isn't new, but this class I think generally across the board is viewed as the best class you've put together, maybe one of the best in program history. Why now? Why were you guys able to put together your best class?
URBAN MEYER: Oh, I think that would be something to ask our players. The guys that signed. But I'd say just because I'm an old hat at this now, I'm not the new guy. Your best salesmen, to see Zeke Elliott's father and family and to see Josh Perry's mom and dad, they're around. They speak to players when they're allowed to, on official visits. And the greatest salespeople we have are the people in that locker room and our parents because everybody is going to have nice facilities, everybody is going to have a big stadium.

I don't know if it's just a generational thing that's going on right now, but I am so impressed by the young people coming out of high school in these last two years. I hope that's nationally and in other sports, as well. We're getting very good students, very good people and people that are so interested in life after football, and that wasn't the case. A lot of times it's what -- hey, I'm going to the league. Great, go to the league, but some day the league is going to be gone. And that's what -- I think those kind of people are naturally attracted to Ohio State, and those kind of people are very much attracted to our program.

Q. Seven Ohio kids in this class out of 21; it's the lowest number you guys have had. Is that enough Ohio State --
URBAN MEYER: No, it's not. No, 50 percent is kind of the mark that I've been trying to -- I keep it right in front of me and I stare at it and make sure that we're doing right.

The thing that happens in Ohio in this early signing really bothers you because Ohio is traditionally a late developing state. When you start talk the other states four years of -- for example, in high school in Texas, you go at noon, there's a football class, shoulder pads, it's a football class. And then you go have lunch, you come back as a coach to evaluate two hours later and they have football practice, and that's in March or May, whenever spring football is.

My son plays high school football here and he's not doing anything football related until summertime when the teams get ready to go. As a result, four years of that and you get a little more of an advanced player at times. Then other times you get to Darron Lee, you get to Josh Perry, you get these phenomenal football players that take maybe a little bit more time to develop. Does that make sense?

What brothers me, and I'm so glad it didn't happen is an early signing in June would not be good because we have to see some of those guys play and perform their senior year.

Q. More nationally, you're taking players that are five-star, no doubter type of kids and you have less room obviously for --
URBAN MEYER: That's right. Do we like that? No, we don't like that. I wish I could save -- I'm glad it worked out with Thayer. We had another spot saved if we wanted to go after an Ohio guy and it just didn't materialize. But I'm on purpose keeping those spots because there is going to be someone show up, and it happens Darron Lee is the easy one to recognize, but the Tyvis Powell, the Darron Lee -- who did we sign this year? Jaylen Harris. He was a guy that we just kept watching and watching and watching and he kept developing, kept developing. So it's an interesting dilemma that we deal with every year.

Q. Looking at wide receiver recruiting, you guys have signed a lot of big, actual wide receivers the last two years in Bin Victor and Austin Mack, three guys this year. Has there been a change in philosophy with wide receiver recruiting?
URBAN MEYER: That's never changed. It's just can you get them, are they out there, are they good enough. Everybody wants Julio Jones. They don't come around very often. Bin Victor is going to be a dynamite player here. We saw Clemson's guys presented match-up issues, but everybody wants big and fast. I don't think any school in the country is looking for small. No. It's the best quality player that's available.

Q. I want to ask you about the Kevin Wilson hiring. As soon as he resigned from Indiana, did kind of an antenna up like this could be a good fit here at Ohio State with Kevin Wilson?
URBAN MEYER: I've thought about that before, and I didn't know what Indiana -- I thought they'd done a phenomenal job there. We didn't want to play them every year, I know that.

So I've known Coach Wilson since Northwestern days, and just got great respect. I know our staff and really the United States of America does as far as a football coach.

Q. You spoke about this a little in your opening statement, talking about Shaun, but you had a bunch of guys actually that committed in 2015 anywhere from like a year to 18 months before this signing day. What was the challenge with keeping some of those guys committed for that long, and have you ever had a class where so many of the guys or people who have been committed for at least a year?
URBAN MEYER: I didn't really research that. I will. That's unusual to hang on to them that long. Not so much if it's a Josh Myers because he's got Ohio ties.

Q. A lot of them were out of state guys, too.
URBAN MEYER: Yeah, the in-state guys it's not uncommon to be able to hang on to them, but a kid from Florida, especially where he's from, I mean, that's tough. It's almost like when they commit to me, I put a 30 percent on -- is that actually going to happen. So it is, I don't have that in front of me exactly how many, but that is unusual to be able to hang on to an out-of-state guy for over a year because people just wear him out.

Let me just say this, too. The Texas kids have hung in there because there were some new hires in that part of the country, and they went after them now, and to be able to hang in there and get them here, I'm glad we got them here in January.

Q. The Texas kids, Elijah Gardiner is a new name that kind of popped up the last couple weeks. How do you guys go about finding players like that, very kind of under the radar?
URBAN MEYER: Well, that's another late developer and that's a guy that after I really studied him and our staff really studied him and got to meet him and spend time with him, look what he's going to be like, that's a project type body, but big and fast. Kind of if you miss on a player, make sure you miss fast and miss big, and they usually turn into something. But once you get to know him and his family and find out he's a tough guy, very impressed with him.

What happens is you lose a couple guys to the NFL Draft, maybe have a decommitment, maybe have a guy that's going to transfer, that's got some stuff going on and you put the APB out. And we have a recruiting staff that keeps a file of players available for us, because you can't watch 60 receivers until all of a sudden something -- we're getting ready to play bowl games and all this, boom, we start hearing there is a transition maybe to the NFL. And we have a staff put together things and they said, okay, here's the top 10 guys. We go evaluate them. I get on a plane, we go see them and that's what happens, and it's fast.

Q. For the average person, they hear the name for the first time three weeks ago. How long have you guys been seeing a kid like Elijah?
URBAN MEYER: Yeah, not him. He came out of our staff finding him. There's other ones we were in touch with pretty much the whole year, but we felt he was better after you got to know him.

Q. About Thayer Munford, what was it you needed to see before you offered him?
URBAN MEYER: There was an interesting story. I think you guys will really enjoy it. I had Gene Smith meet with him, as well. He was at Princeton and then he went to La Salle, became very close with Nate and his wife Rebecca, and then they went to the state championship, La Salle, his sophomore year. He leaves and goes to Massillon. Grew very close to his family, went through just some personal issues, and then they moved him to -- they took custodialship of Thayer in Massillon. They deemed him ineligible for a good portion of the season. Greg Studrawa had him three or four times at camp, was knee deep. The line coach at Massillon actually was my center at Bowling Green and played for Studs. There was deep ties there. And Studs was the one. He would not let that die. He would not. He kept going, I want this guy, I want this guy. We're not going to have room. We've got room.

And then I went down and watched him play basketball. We had him come up here twice. I think twice. I think it might have been three times. And he checked off all the boxes and we went after him.

Q. One question more about Kevin Wilson. When Tom Herman was here you said this is not going to be Tom Herman's offense, this is going to be our offense with incorporating things that he does. What do you expect Kevin Wilson to do to enhance this offense, and also, what did you do in terms of vetting him?
URBAN MEYER: Well, the first part, that was immediate. I went to Gene Smith and Gene Smith talked to Dr. Drake because, like anything, there's stories that get thrown out there. I talked to Kevin myself at great length. I talked to others that knew him that were there. Gene Smith did, as well. I already knew just because I knew the guy, but I wanted to hear what goes on and whether it's a disgruntled player, whether it's an issue with the trainer, whether it's an issue with some -- I just needed to find out, and so did my bosses. So it was rather quick, and it came back everything was good. There was some misunderstandings, philosophical differences, which I understand that. I wanted to know what they were, and we proceeded.

Second part of that question was what?

Q. What will you do to enhance the offense?
URBAN MEYER: Throw the ball better. I was going through all our stats, we led the Big Ten in offense this year. I think there's three or four out of five years. In scoring offenses. We were I think .07 points away from leading the Big Ten in scoring offenses. No.1 in 3rd down conversions. Where before we wanted to be 250, 250. I believe we were 250 rushing or 247 or something like that. We were only 213 passing, and we want to be 250, 250. It is going to be -- I'm going to be perfectly clear, though, this is the Ohio State offense, and we're going to enhance it and make it better.

214 is the perfect -- that's what we want to be, and that's great balance. 1,500 yard rusher receivers that are making -- have the ability to stretch the field, and we have to get back to that, and we have to play with better tempo.

That's where Tom Herman really enhanced our offense. He brought a tempo to us. And I know Coach Wilson and Ryan Day are very much used to that.

Q. Along the same lines about the offense, just we haven't had a chance really to talk to you since the bowl game. What have the past four weeks been like within this facility, probably some uneasy discussion about how that playoff game unfolded and just direction going forward; sounds like the guys are back working at it. Is that giving everybody a clear vision of what's right and what's wrong?
URBAN MEYER: Yeah, I put the -- the season was unfortunate to end like that because that's not -- I believe we were a year ahead of schedule. I believe -- I did not envision that at the beginning of the season. I thought it was going to be a knock-down, drag-out, and we started off really hot going to Norman, Oklahoma, and guys were starting to grow up.

But we did not play well, obviously -- that's an understatement, in the final game. Believe it or not, and that's -- for me that left this facility very quickly. We delved into recruiting, finished off one of the best classes in history, and the team is at it and going at it with the intent that that will never happen again. We also understand it's college football and we're dealing with young people. So there's going to be some changes that are made throughout, including just minor changes, where we -- I think it's time to refresh a little bit the program, from minor things about where we do stretch, where we practice, we'll switch the fields, switch lockers, doing all kinds of -- just changing up some things.

I'm going to change the coaches' offices all around. I can't remember all -- there's a business where you change -- change equates to 15 percent increase in production, and so that's the whole thing we're going to do this year, just going to change things up a little bit.

Q. Baron Browning told us about his prank that he pulled on you when he committed.

Q. About committing to --

Q. Your version, and you also turned the tables on him?
URBAN MEYER: I remember sitting down, and I looked down and he was going to commit. I was over at a friend's. I can't remember what time of year it was. And I remember looking, I leaned over, I said here it comes. Boom. I look down, and I can't remember if he called or sent me a text, and he said, I'm going to roll with Bama or something. I took my phone and threw it against the wall. I sit down, and all of a sudden I hear it buzzing again over there. I look and it's his father, and his father says, hey, we got him, Coach, congrats. I said, what the hell are you talking about? He's going to Alabama. He said no, he's just playing around. So he got me good.

Q. But then you got him back? You told him you had taken a job with the LA Rams?
URBAN MEYER: Oh, he cried. Did he tell you that? Did he tell you he teared up?

Q. He said he was mad.
URBAN MEYER: He told you this? You guys are going to like covering him the next few years (laughter.)

So there was all those rumors about the Los Angeles Rams, so I called his mom because she's great, and I said, Keisha, let's go get him. She said, okay, what do you want to do? I said, I'm going to call -- because she teaches at the school, call him down there and let's put him speakerphone. I want to see his reaction. So we did it.

I said, Baron, I've got some tough news for you, but I've taken this job. And you just hear quiet. And I go, hey, man, you all right? Just quiet, quiet. I said, I'm just kidding, man. You all right? His mom said, man, he was crying, he was crying. Great stories.

Q. Do you look at J.T. as an addition to this class? There was some possibility that he might not return and go to the NFL, that he might not be your quarterback again this year. Is he a bonus for this group?
URBAN MEYER: He's our quarterback. I mean, he's -- I think what happens is microphones get stuck in front of players' faces in tough situations. You lose a game, you're embarrassed on national TV, and things happen, and I talked to him the other day. I saw some comments he made about I wouldn't have came back, but I don't know if that's all -- I'm sure if he would like to re-say what he said.

I never thought he would leave. I don't know how close that was. Only J.T. knows. I'm very close with him. But I think he's an Ohio State Buckeye and will always be an Ohio State Buckeye.

What happens here is, boy, the offense is terrible and we only led the Big Ten for four out of five -- you create these monsters and you have to feed the monsters. I'm familiar with it. I'm at that age now where I've been a part of that for many, many years., and I just want to make sure our players continue to just keep going, just keep the boat pointed straight ahead and go as hard as you can and steady the boat. I think when you see a guy like J.T. who wants it so bad, wanted it so bad, we were there at the doorstep again, and that's a challenge for him. He's not done that yet. He got us to the doorstep again in '14 and gave way to Cardale.

So I never thought it was that close, but once again, that's his --

Q. What does it mean now for the future of your quarterback room to bring in Tate? Looked like you guys have a line of successors going down for the next few years. How comfortable do you feel?
URBAN MEYER: Tate is a -- you know, we are a very evaluation friendly business as a coach and as a quarterback. Some people measure it by throwing yards, or same thing with a coach. Some people measure their success. However we measure it very simply, how do you win? Tate is a winner. J.T. Barrett is a winner. Braxton Miller was a winner. Obviously Cardale Jones is a winner. Tim Tebow was a phenomenal winner.

So those guys, the way we evaluate quarterbacks, I understand is a lot different than others, he's a winner. So obviously that's where he fits. He's a winner. He comes from a winning program, a winning sense of -- the way he is, personality. You see the way he walks around here, so that's what he brings to us.

Q. (Inaudible) still brought in fast guys but not big bodies --
URBAN MEYER: Not by purpose.

Q. That's what I want to ask. Is this a shift now to not only that body type but also maybe guys who are quote-unquote ready-made receivers, not necessarily guys who are just (inaudible)?
URBAN MEYER: I don't know that. I know we go out and try -- it's the top 15 receivers in America, and you don't say, but they have to be 6'3" because that also limits your pool. And all of a sudden out of the top tall receivers in the country, six are from California, one from Arizona, two from Texas, that's not in our backyard. It happens Jaylen Harris, we had one in Cleveland, Ohio. Trevon Grimes, that's kind of school now or one of our schools that we have a very close relationship with, and it just worked out very well.

The young man in Texas was just simply our staff found him, we loved him when we met him, we watched him. So it wasn't -- it's not a philosophical shift. I think that's what people are asking. Not at all.

Next year we're going to go try to find the biggest, fastest receiver we can and hopefully we can get involved with him. Unfortunately even next year they're not real close to here.

Q. There have been a few guys who have announced they're transferring from the program.
URBAN MEYER: Who's announced?

Q. Kyle Trout and Evan Lisle.
URBAN MEYER: Evan Lisle is a graduate transfer. I believe he's going to Duke. Who was the other one?

Q. Kyle Trout.

Q. Lawrence is the other one. I didn't know in there was anyone else who's made that decision or possibly a medical situation?
URBAN MEYER: Let me get through today. I don't want to misspeak. I've been traveling and everything.

Q. As you look at this group of guys you've just signed, a guy that jumps out at me is Wyatt Davis. Do you see much like Michael Jordan, do you see he or Josh Myers competing for a spot?
URBAN MEYER: Yes, Josh Myers is competing already.

Q. Why? What stands out about those two guys?
URBAN MEYER: They're both from excellent programs. They're both very disciplined, mature people. Man, they're blessed. They're big. They're not -- usually guys that big are fat-big, but these guys aren't fat-big, they're big-big. But Josh Myers is absolutely killing it in the weight room right now. He's going to be in the mix.

Wyatt Davis, I went out watching him practice. Obviously he's a great story, how we got him. Wonderful high school program, one of the best programs in America. I don't want to say he's ready-made because that's not fair for him, but that's how much respect we have for Bosco football program.

Q. When you look at this group, this is the sixth team you've signed since I've been covering you here at Ohio State, this group. You seem very excited about this group in particular. Where do you see immediate help coming from this --
URBAN MEYER: Defensive backfield. I see those guys -- we targeted -- very rarely do you target and you get, and Kerry Coombs and Greg Schiano and us, we targeted those guys from day one, and we got the three primary guys. Ken did he Sheffield doesn't get much but you talk about a guy that's competed already at the high level. You're talking about elite track times, 13, 4.2 in the 110s, which that's damned near world class. Comes from a really good family, real clean guy.

I went down to Blinn Junior College and spent time there, and he's very professional about his approach. So I would say that area is probably the most likely to -- I think linebacker, too. I think Werner and Baron Browning are two that we targeted early on. One was committed to another program, but we just kept hanging in there, hanging in there, because Luke Fickell loved him and so did I. We loved him. And then the tide started to change a little bit and we got him, and Baron Browning, you heard the story. That was a free for all to get him.

Q. Would you ever have a year like this again in the state of Texas, do you think?

Q. Because when you talk to guys down there, they're saying, well, when it comes to Tate Martell, I know they've always considered you guys to be a national name, but this class seems to cement that when you look at Chase Young from Maryland and Wyatt Davis from California and Trevon Grimes from Florida, all corners almost of the -- do you feel like more than ever this is a national program in the respect that you can knock on any door?
URBAN MEYER: I think our success maybe has helped that. You know, Zeke Elliott in the NFL Draft. There's a variety of things that kids look for. I think our Real Life Wednesday program that we do for people, that's caught the eye of many people. First of all, Ohio State is a national brand and will always be and always has been. But I think the success we've had recently and the exposure that this program has had for the right reasons has really been beneficial.

The one area, too, that they see that these kids not only leave this program and go to the NFL, they start, and we have rookie of the year, rookie of the year. We have Mike Thomas goes in, he's dominant Pro Bowl, I think, and I lose track of them. I'm watching the Pro Bowl, a Buckeye carries the ball, a Buckeye is blocking for him, and a Buckeye tackles him. You know, it's a lot of good stuff out there.

Q. Do you all push that big time, though, when you're talking to these guys?
URBAN MEYER: Ya think? (Laughter.)

Before a week ago, no. I'm not sure I'm going to go back, either.

Great, great people. I was only there for an hour, but the high school coach -- I'm just kidding, I'd be glad to go back. They have another one of those, we'll go back.

Q. This is just a continuation of my first question, but I do want to say I was talking with this coach --
URBAN MEYER: Is this conversation or are you asking a question?

Q. Everybody thinks you just got him four days ago, a week ago. He said, actually Ohio State people were in touch with me a month and a half, two months ago. Is that a compliment to Pantoni and his staff with their thoroughness?
URBAN MEYER: Yeah, that staff has come from a one person that runs their recruiting to we have a massive staff Also, Zach Swartz, Sammy Silverman our boy Kenton. I heard he was on the -- picture of him. Where is Austin? I think you did it, right? You must be bored if that's what you're doing stories on. I love him, though, he's great.

So our staff, I think I'd like to think we have the best staff in America, and if not we're going to have the best staff in that area. And Gene Smith has been very understanding and making sure that we are swinging with both hands.

Q. With 15 guys leaving early and going to the NFL Draft in the last two classes, does that put more pressure to find guys who will play immediately or does it change anything?
URBAN MEYER: I don't want to say it's awful, but it's tough. Just the minute you think -- imagine what this team would have looked like last year with those nine guys back. But that's the way it is. I guess we are now of the mindset that will happen. Prepare for it to happen. Recruit guys that are ready-made as much as you can. But also there's a lot of pressure on Coach Mick and them to get them ready. We start spring practice in a month. Get them ready. They're all going to be playing. I say that every year. And people say, well, you redshirt some guys. I don't want to redshirt anyone. I hope we do not.

Really deep down I feel this is going to be an exceptional class with a bunch of them playing because they're showing it right now.

Q. You've got Greg, Kevin and Bill on your staff, close friends. Have you always been comfortable hiring buddies, for lack of a better term? What has changed about that, and is it just a comfort level?
URBAN MEYER: Well, a lot of my people are gone. They're head coaches and they've moved on, and I'm very uncomfortable hiring people I don't know. I on purpose try to stay away from that, to answer your question. Greg was probably the first one that was really close. I wouldn't put Kevin in that category. We are friends but nothing compared to Billy and Greg. So yeah, I've tried to stay away from it. But they were the best guys out there, and I have a job, and that's hire the best guys I can for this University, and they fit that bill.

Q. Why do you stay away from it again?
URBAN MEYER: I don't know, just advice I've taken over the years, and I really didn't have to go there because I had plenty of other guys to choose from, but the guys that I kind of had that pool, the pool is kind of dried out, so out searching.

Q. On the offensive coaching changes, it seems like the way things went down, things were in the works before the Clemson loss; is that true? And in the end, did you let Tim and Ed go, or what transpired there?
URBAN MEYER: No, they wanted to pursue other opportunities. There was good conversation. It was applicable, and there was no one fired. There was no one that you had to leave. There was going to be some changes made. I wasn't quite sure what they were. But to say that all took place before the Clemson game, that's not correct.

There was some conversation before the Clemson game, but our focus was do the very best, go win that game, and then afterwards let's have conversation. That's what happened. But there was no dismissal or anything like that. Guys just pursued other opportunities and moved on.

Q. Ed goes from play caller to co-coordinator at Ohio State to not a coordinator at Minnesota. That's not a sideways move, that's a move down.
URBAN MEYER: Well, I don't look at it that way. And once again, I don't want to speak for Ed. That would be maybe something you could visit with him about, but I know one thing, that he did a hell of a job here at Ohio State.

Q. With all the things you've said over the years about this, is the Ohio State offense no matter who the coordinator is, you've obviously had great success the last two years, but if this offense maybe wasn't quite what you wanted it to be, it's still your offense and you're still an offensive expert. Was there anything you could have or should have done to maybe get more of a handle on it if it turned out that you guys didn't throw it this year as well as you wanted to?
URBAN MEYER: That's what these next two months are all about. For me to answer that -- I've been -- I was in Kemp, Texas. I haven't been doing this. But that's all going to take place. Starting three days ago I started a complete statistic evaluation. I didn't realize we rushed for more yards than any other school in the country the last five years. I'm getting all these things we did well, and same thing, what we didn't do well. What you find out, productivity in the passing game has really hurt us, and we need to be more productive. Now, what does that mean? I hear the term receivers must separate. Exactly. Quarterbacks must be more accurate. Exactly. And the offensive line must do -- we gave up 25 sacks this year. That's not acceptable.

So those are all things that we're going to really focus in on.

Q. Just the way you coach and everything you have to do, can you be more hands-on at all with the offense, or do you have to just have the coordinators and position coaches in there?
URBAN MEYER: No, I can't be more -- those are great questions. I want to be the head coach, and I want to run special teams. I want to be the game manager and the motivator. I also -- I'm very involved in the offense, but I try to hire the best possible guys I can to coordinate, because coordinating the offense isn't calling a play. That's the misunderstanding. Coordinating the offense is the practice, the motivation, inspiration of the staff in that room right there. Those are all titles of the coordinator, not so-called who called the reverse. That really has no bearing on the coordinator. Does that make sense? That's where I -- I think on the defensive side of the ball, we really struggled four years ago or whenever that was, and fire this guy, get rid of this guy, do this, do this. We made it work. And it wasn't necessarily the defense called, it was the whole package that performed the last three years at a very, very high level. Obviously great players, but I loved what was done in that room.

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